Reply to: Where to pitch you rate when offered a spread?

[Smartie]

Well, might find out soon. Prospective client meeting tomorrow...

[kal]

Its normally at the middle of the spread I've found. If I see a role advertising £300 - £400, the rate on offer is invariably £350.

[oscarose]

Reluctantly, go in at the high band.

[psychocandy]

Perhaps you should look up "annualisation of income" to understand why most of us think you're taking the Michael.

LOL. along with half the people who claim benefits.

[malvolio]

Can we just get over the fact that I claim JSA when the situation dictates please? You really do seem obsessed by it.

Im sorry if it bothers you but, to be honest, tough titty. As I've said a million times I aint gonna stop just because some random stranger on a forum thinks I should.

So please lets stick to the thread?

Perhaps you should look up "annualisation of income" to understand why most of us think you're taking the Michael.

[psychocandy]

But presumably if you turn down the work, they stop your money?

Can we just get over the fact that I claim JSA when the situation dictates please? You really do seem obsessed by it.

Im sorry if it bothers you but, to be honest, tough titty. As I've said a million times I aint gonna stop just because some random stranger on a forum thinks I should.

So please lets stick to the thread?

[speling bee]

I find it very annoying when agents tell me all about a role and I say 'perfect yes put me forward'. Then they say 'what is your rate', I say 'what's the top rate the clients paying', they say 'it's negotiable', great I say 'put me forward at 'n'', they say 'the max rate is 'n - n/4'' I say 'you said there wasn't a max rate and it's negotiable', they say 'but we won't get you that' I say 'doesn't sound very negotiable, just put me forward at the most you think you can get'.... I no longer think the role is perfect...

Always worth quoting more than they will reasonably pay and then you soon find out what the maximum is.

[andyc2000]

I find it very annoying when agents tell me all about a role and I say 'perfect yes put me forward'. Then they say 'what is your rate', I say 'what's the top rate the clients paying', they say 'it's negotiable', great I say 'put me forward at 'n'', they say 'the max rate is 'n - n/4'' I say 'you said there wasn't a max rate and it's negotiable', they say 'but we won't get you that' I say 'doesn't sound very negotiable, just put me forward at the most you think you can get'.... I no longer think the role is perfect...

[speling bee]

Unless they are on a fixed percentage margin, in which case they have an incentive to get you a better rate.

Yes... but if they are competing against other agencies, winning the business is more important than profit.

[speling bee]

I see some have mentioned that bottom end of rate is just agent taking more of cut and that client just offers one rate.

Not so. Having been involved in getting other contractors on board for a few clients. Cost matters - more than it should to some clients.

I've seen client look at some contractors who are miles inferior just because they're £50 cheaper. Sometimes it makes all the difference to a client - even when it shouldnt.

Therefore, depends on how good the rate is and how much I want the gig. If its local and good rate anyway I will do it at the bottom end. If I dont someone else will and they might get in there purely on price.

But presumably if you turn down the work, they stop your money?

[TheFaQQer]

b) An agent offering a spread is potentially conning you into taking a lower rate to increase his profit: the gig will have been offered to him at a single rate by the client.

Unless they are on a fixed percentage margin, in which case they have an incentive to get you a better rate.

[psychocandy]

I see some have mentioned that bottom end of rate is just agent taking more of cut and that client just offers one rate.

Not so. Having been involved in getting other contractors on board for a few clients. Cost matters - more than it should to some clients.

I've seen client look at some contractors who are miles inferior just because they're £50 cheaper. Sometimes it makes all the difference to a client - even when it shouldnt.

Therefore, depends on how good the rate is and how much I want the gig. If its local and good rate anyway I will do it at the bottom end. If I dont someone else will and they might get in there purely on price.

[Scrag Meister]

Always start high, you can't negotiate up from a starting point you give.

As others have said, start at the top or just above and see where you end up.

Hopefully not at the bottom of the range.

[Smartie]

Hmmm....

A few things spring to mind:

a) You're a contractor; you won't be offered the job if the agent doesn't already think you can do it fully. You're not paid to learn or improve yourself, you're paid to deliver. So already you are fully qualified for the role, as far as your value is concerned

b) An agent offering a spread is potentially conning you into taking a lower rate to increase his profit: the gig will have been offered to him at a single rate by the client. Arguably he will have some room above the highest rate he's offering.

c) Your duty as a Director is to maximise the profitability of YourCo, so going for anything less than the highest available rate is a dereliction of that duty.

d) You're a contractor.

Nuff said?

a) Yep, sure I can do the job, though obviously this is contingent on the client meeting and subsequent offer (or not).

b) I'd rather the money was in my pocket than in the agents but equally if he has a couple of options to send to interview I don't want him sending someone cheaper instead. If he has a single figure, I'm guessing at the max offered rate he'll be taking 15% which isn't that unreasonable though my current contract is 10%.

c) Correct, partially. Profitability is not simply a function of rate but also of chargeable days. I'm happy not to be the most expensive if I'm fully utilised for 46 weeks every year.

d) Yes, yes I am :-)

[malvolio]

Sure, but as we're operating a business surely we have a duty to think strategically about the future of the company rather than just about rates?
I've known plenty of suppliers that would bend over backwards (or forwards ;-) to get a good client on their books and reference list.

I'm happy to negotiate but of course that depends what hand you're holding and how much you're prepared to bluff.

While I'm prepared to stretch the truth somewhat (as long as I know I can back it up when delivering to the client), there are limits.
For instance if someone said to me 'do you have investment banking experience' I'd really like to be able to give a positive answer. In fact I'd be prepared to be flexible on my rate in order to, at a later date, say 'yes and it was with a well known and respected company so give me loadsa money'.

Hmmm....

A few things spring to mind:

a) You're a contractor; you won't be offered the job if the agent doesn't already think you can do it fully. You're not paid to learn or improve yourself, you're paid to deliver. So already you are fully qualified for the role, as far as your value is concerned

b) An agent offering a spread is potentially conning you into taking a lower rate to increase his profit: the gig will have been offered to him at a single rate by the client. Arguably he will have some room above the highest rate he's offering.

c) Your duty as a Director is to maximise the profitability of YourCo, so going for anything less than the highest available rate is a dereliction of that duty.

d) You're a contractor.

Nuff said?