Reply to: Who do I ask for a rise: Client or Agent?

[lukemg]

Steady all - this isn't general....
In between all the pedantry there is some good advice here.
In my experience, client will never give you a big rise from current rate unless you have changed the world and can change it back if they don't.
Chief among the reasons for this is the queue of other contractors/agents turning up with the same demands (it ALWAYS gets out) - see JL list for MP's, one gets a massive telly, they all want one.
So - If you cant stomach existing rate + maybe 10% more, you will have to walk I reckon.
I would be very tempted not to hold current client to ransom and try to leave on good terms, some reason why you cant travel for a while means its not your fault etc.
It's obvious but always negotiate hard on the way in, there are limited options after this point.

[TheFaQQer]

If I substituted "must" with "could", would that satisfy you?

Well, there is a vast difference between stating that they "must" be permie and they "could be" permie. If you meant "they could be permies", then you are right, they could be. If however, you meant that they must be permies, then unless you are party to information not disclosed in the thread, then it is a ridiculous statement.

[texto]

And the basis for such a sweeping statement is...?


Wait a moment - I thought that they "must be permie"?

If I substituted "must" with "could", would that satisfy you? The OP referred to them as "Indians" and not "British of Indian origin". Most Indians come here on a work permit employed by their Indian employer. They provide managed services. I can name a few of them if you want. I've worked alongside them for a long time.

[TheFaQQer]

But bringing in people at existing rate, probably means he aint gonna pay extra for someone already there because he knows he can get people in.

Also, it does happen, once people know they can get offshored staff in for a low rate as they see it, then occasionally cost becomes the most important driver.

If the client is bringing people in at the same rate, then that indicates that might be the market rate for those skills.

Did the original post specify where the new resources are based, or just their nationality?

[TheFaQQer]

Firstly these newbies must be permie with their company (not on a good pay).

And the basis for such a sweeping statement is...?

Try to find out what company they work for. If they do work for another company and are not independent contractors then you are in trouble.

Wait a moment - I thought that they "must be permie"?

[Batcher]

I never talk rates with the client. I may mention that I'll be looking for a raise when it comes to renewal time but that is for me and the agency to talk about initially.

I try not to worry about the rate that other contractors around me are on. As long as I'm happy with the rate I've negotiated then that's all that matter to me.

[psychocandy]

Hmmm - bringing in two people at the same rate as the OP doesn't really indicate that they are focussing on cost.

But bringing in people at existing rate, probably means he aint gonna pay extra for someone already there because he knows he can get people in.

Also, it does happen, once people know they can get offshored staff in for a low rate as they see it, then occasionally cost becomes the most important driver.

[SuPaStA]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 425 rate you saw on the email is what your client would be paying the agency, the 2 contractors would be getting less than that after the agency takes their cut.

[stek]

Getting a 'rise' is easy, just pay yourself more salary or increase your dividend.

[texto]

I am in the project (Testing) for couple of months in London. Accepted a daily rate of £425 that I was not very happy about considering my several years of experience in Ruby, Java, Spring, Cucumber, Cucumber-JVM, Jenkins CI, Agile etc, however did so to get into a leading Investment Bank. Client is extremely happy with my work so far as I have managed to convince project members on testing approach (its really hard to get things moving in IB) through presentations on Agile, BDD, TDD in addition to testing. Now client got couple of so called experienced newbies (Indians) with no exposure whatsoever at the same rate. Having seen ads for £500-£600+ for my skills, I have decided to quit and apply elsewhere.

Two weeks before, I informed agent that I have started looking elsewhere considering the cost involved in travelling to London from Midlands on a daily basis. He said the client would talk to me but client didn't (they may be aware that I am expecting a rise but not sure). Is it worth talking to client before sending contract termination notice to Agent? I am quite confident of getting another contract.

Thanks

Firstly these newbies must be permie with their company (not on a good pay). Try to find out what company they work for. If they do work for another company and are not independent contractors then you are in trouble. The client is probably trying a long term strategy in handing over that area to a managed service company. It happened to me. They may be charging 425 to the client but the newbies are probably not getting much.

Is your problem to do with "how can they pay these newbies the same rate as me when I'm so experienced?" ? I'd say negotiate a rate rise when it is time for renewal and not anywhere in the middle of your contract. It will not go down well. And the client will never jump from £425 to say 600. They will probably offer you a 5-10% raise.

But then if are confident you can get a contract at £600, then go for it. But don't burn bridges with your current client. You may need them for references and in future.

[kal]

Hmmm - bringing in two people at the same rate as the OP doesn't really indicate that they are focussing on cost.

At the end of the day the OP seems a bit narked that other people on the project are on higher rates, you agreed a rate so live with it. I know for a fact that where I am others are on more for doing the same role as me, am I fussed, no. I agreed a rate and am happy with it. Good luck to others that have got more (Of course come renewal time I may look to negotiate an increase but I am not going to throw my toys out of my pram like the OP and alienate a good client mid contract!).

[TheFaQQer]

WHS. Although sounds like client is one of those where cost is the most important hence happy to offshore.

Hmmm - bringing in two people at the same rate as the OP doesn't really indicate that they are focussing on cost.

[psychocandy]

Which is it? More experienced? Newbies? How do you know what rate they are on?



The agent has probably done nothing, in the hope that you'll just carry on and forget about it. Chase him up first to make sure he's approached the client. Then if there's still no contact from the client, mention it to them.

WHS. Although sounds like client is one of those where cost is the most important hence happy to offshore.

[TheFaQQer]

I am in the project (Testing) for couple of months in London.

Accepted a daily rate of £425 that I was not very happy about considering my several years of experience in Ruby, Java, Spring, Cucumber, Cucumber-JVM, Jenkins CI, Agile etc, however did so to get into a leading Investment Bank. Client is extremely happy with my work so far as I have managed to convince project members on testing approach (its really hard to get things moving in IB) through presentations on Agile, BDD, TDD in addition to testing. Now client got couple of so called experienced newbies (Indians) with no exposure whatsoever at the same rate. Having seen ads for £500-£600+ for my skills, I have decided to quit and apply elsewhere.

Good luck with your new role.

Two weeks before, I informed agent that I have started looking elsewhere considering the cost involved in travelling to London from Midlands on a daily basis.

Did he explain why your inability top estimate wasn't his problem?

He said the client would talk to me but client didn't (they may be aware that I am expecting a rise but not sure). Is it worth talking to client before sending contract termination notice to Agent?

It's always worth making sure that everyone involved in the process is aware of the situation.

I am quite confident of getting another contract.

Good luck with the new role - make sure you've done your sums this time, so you don't look like a buffoon suddenly demanding a 25% rate increase after a short time, merely because you can't price things up and other people can.

[DigitalUser]

I am in the project (Testing) for couple of months in London. Accepted a daily rate of £425 that I was not very happy about considering my several years of experience in Ruby, Java, Spring, Cucumber, Cucumber-JVM, Jenkins CI, Agile etc, however did so to get into a leading Investment Bank. Client is extremely happy with my work so far as I have managed to convince project members on testing approach (its really hard to get things moving in IB) through presentations on Agile, BDD, TDD in addition to testing. Now client got couple of so called experienced newbies (Indians) with no exposure whatsoever at the same rate. Having seen ads for £500-£600+ for my skills, I have decided to quit and apply elsewhere.

Two weeks before, I informed agent that I have started looking elsewhere considering the cost involved in travelling to London from Midlands on a daily basis. He said the client would talk to me but client didn't (they may be aware that I am expecting a rise but not sure). Is it worth talking to client before sending contract termination notice to Agent? I am quite confident of getting another contract.

Thanks

I'm not sure what the ethnicity of your fellow coworkers has to do with anything. Sounds like a case of crying over spilt milk.

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