Reply to: Working without a contract

[BlasterBates]

I had occasion to do this a couple of weeks ago. Was planning to exercise the 4-week notice period in my current contract to move to a better-paying gig a little closer to home (for reasons that I will neither discuss nor defend on here).

Anyway the contract was sent to me but on the same day I got a call from another agent telling me that a role was due to appear at a client 1/2 an hour from my home and that only a couple of candidates were in the frame.

This was the gig I was hoping for but I didn't want to jump ship twice within a short period so I contacted the first agent and explained my situation and that I wouldn't be taking the role.

His response was that he was very disappointed and asked me to put myself in his shoes and how he would feel having to face the client after "bigging me up" (his words). I said I was just trying to be straight with him and asked him how he would feel if I'd taken the gig and then bailed out again. He grudgingly conceded that point

I've spoken with him since and he said he understood where I was coming from so we're all pals again

I guess the short version of all that is that it depends upon with your relationship with the agent and how you play it.

You did it on the same day, that's acceptable because they just ring up the other candidates.

The problem is, if you do this after a week or two and then the other candidates are gone, then it might well lead to a great deal annoyance.

It all depends on whether you cause the financial damage to the client, i.e. project is late because they had to spend two more weeks recruiting. Then it won't be forgotten.

[psychocandy]

Like that. Agents trying to make you feel sorry for them. Never going to happen for me.

[MojoDog]

If you agreed to it verbally yes you're commited to the contract, obviously you can claim there was a misunderstanding but it is highly unprofessional.

I treat contracts as signed when I ring up the agent and agree to the contract.

No-one will do anything if you do jump ship, but you've burnt your bridges with the client if you do that, particularly if the other candidates have moved on and they have to restart the recruitment process.

No-one would keep you to your notice period there's no point, they'll just "hate you"

I had occasion to do this a couple of weeks ago. Was planning to exercise the 4-week notice period in my current contract to move to a better-paying gig a little closer to home (for reasons that I will neither discuss nor defend on here).

Anyway the contract was sent to me but on the same day I got a call from another agent telling me that a role was due to appear at a client 1/2 an hour from my home and that only a couple of candidates were in the frame.

This was the gig I was hoping for but I didn't want to jump ship twice within a short period so I contacted the first agent and explained my situation and that I wouldn't be taking the role.

His response was that he was very disappointed and asked me to put myself in his shoes and how he would feel having to face the client after "bigging me up" (his words). I said I was just trying to be straight with him and asked him how he would feel if I'd taken the gig and then bailed out again. He grudgingly conceded that point

I've spoken with him since and he said he understood where I was coming from so we're all pals again

I guess the short version of all that is that it depends upon with your relationship with the agent and how you play it.

[BlasterBates]

And we're all happy about that.
I also got my contract in paper, even better.

Now let's say that I have the contract extension in paper but I still have to sign it and return it to the agency. And another gig comes up. Would I have to give the notice period mentioned in the contract, even if such contract has not been signed? Basically is me going to work a way to say "Yes, dear agency/client, I accept and commit to the contract"

If you agreed to it verbally yes you're commited to the contract, obviously you can claim there was a misunderstanding but it is highly unprofessional.

I treat contracts as signed when I ring up the agent and agree to the contract.

No-one will do anything if you do jump ship, but you've burnt your bridges with the client if you do that, particularly if the other candidates have moved on and they have to restart the recruitment process.

No-one would keep you to your notice period there's no point, they'll just "hate you"

[SueEllen]

Now let's say that I have the contract extension in paper but I still have to sign it and return it to the agency. And another gig comes up. Would I have to give the notice period mentioned in the contract, even if such contract has not been signed? Basically is me going to work a way to say "Yes, dear agency/client, I accept and commit to the contract"

Depends on a variety of factors like for example if the period covered by the extension has started and you continued working, how the original contract was signed....

[psychocandy]

And we're all happy about that.
I also got my contract in paper, even better.

Now let's say that I have the contract extension in paper but I still have to sign it and return it to the agency. And another gig comes up. Would I have to give the notice period mentioned in the contract, even if such contract has not been signed? Basically is me going to work a way to say "Yes, dear agency/client, I accept and commit to the contract"

As previously, verbal or email acceptance is pretty much binding both ways.

BUT, and be careful with this, if you don't turn up or tell them you don;t intend to they will likely go mad and threaten to sue you etc. In reality, they won't because its not worth the hassle.

Never heard of anyone getting sued for this ever. In fact, most people say that agent will threaten/call them names etc but few months later if a gig comes up all will be forgotten.

Not saying its a good idea to do this though.

[MattZani]

Verbal agreement is legally binding

And we're all happy about that.
I also got my contract in paper, even better.

Now let's say that I have the contract extension in paper but I still have to sign it and return it to the agency. And another gig comes up. Would I have to give the notice period mentioned in the contract, even if such contract has not been signed? Basically is me going to work a way to say "Yes, dear agency/client, I accept and commit to the contract"

[psychocandy]

If a client or agency wants to pull a fast one then they can do that quite easily with the paperwork, e.g. when the agency goes bust.

The point is they couldn't use the argument that there was no contract, because you're on site working there, and if it's a renewal it would be hard for to play tricks like "we agreed on half the rate".

If it's going to go wrong it would be an unscrupulous agent or client which can you get even when you have a written contract.

If you've been working with them and they're above board, i.e. reputable company nothing much to fear in my view.

But having said that obviously you do want to chase up the paperwork as well.

But no incentive and some clients just cant be arsed with the paperwork at all.

[psychocandy]

Works great when it works. When it falls apart is the real test.....

EXACTLY. Im happy with an email, verbal can be denied later.

[BlasterBates]

If a client or agency wants to pull a fast one then they can do that quite easily with the paperwork, e.g. when the agency goes bust.

The point is they couldn't use the argument that there was no contract, because you're on site working there, and if it's a renewal it would be hard for to play tricks like "we agreed on half the rate".

If it's going to go wrong it would be an unscrupulous agent or client which can you get even when you have a written contract.

If you've been working with them and they're above board, i.e. reputable company nothing much to fear in my view.

But having said that obviously you do want to chase up the paperwork as well.

[northernladuk]

Verbal agreement is legally binding, yes I know some contractors get in a huff if they don't have the paper, but "the law is behind you". If you were actually on site working they aren't actually going to deny this, and they have to pay you.

I once did an entire 3 month contract based on a telephone call.

Works great when it works. When it falls apart is the real test.....

[BlasterBates]

Verbal agreement is legally binding, yes I know some contractors get in a huff if they don't have the paper, but "the law is behind you". If you were actually on site working they aren't actually going to deny this, and they have to pay you.

I once did an entire 3 month contract based on a telephone call.

[psychocandy]

Contract received in my email account.

The agent called me and his first question was "are you on holiday?"
I can just imagine him stop sweating and his relief after I told him that no, I didn't miss a day even without a contract

Missed a trick there matt. Ideal opportunity to wind agent up.

[MattZani]

Contract received in my email account.

The agent called me and his first question was "are you on holiday?"
I can just imagine him stop sweating and his relief after I told him that no, I didn't miss a day even without a contract

[TheFaQQer]

If the person in question works for your client and they have confirmed an on extension in writing, or on e-mail then you have your golden ticket. Authority or not, they represent the company.

Janet is an intern working for the client. Janet has a company email account. Janet's duties are generally limited to filing and photocopying. One morning, Janet sends an email to you offering you a six month extension.

Janet does not have the authority to make the offer, so the offer is invalid.

See Freeman and Lockyer v Buckhurst Park Properties (Mangal) Ltd and also Hely-Hutchinson v Brayhead Ltd