Contracting in Poland

[yosheeck]

I'm from Poland, contracting now in UK.

Few thoughts:

• living in Poland is cheaper in general:
  • in smaller cities you can rent a nice flat for <200 GBP, in large cities (Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw) flat range may be 300-600. Crossing 1000 even for a house is almost impossible (assuming you don't need swimming pool in the property )
  • food and drink prices are similar (or a little bit lower), services are lot cheaper - expect lunch in restaurant to be 50% of UK price, beer for a 0.50 - 1.00 GBP
  • assume Polish Zloty (PLN) is 1/5 of pound (GBP), so 5 PLN = 1 GBP,
  • don't convert money in banks, look for something called "kantor" (money exchange) in non-commercial places. Don't exchange money at airports or big shopping centres - they'll charge you 5-10%. Instead, use small "kantor" points, and expect they take just 0.5 - 1.5 % (or even less if you know how to talk to them).
• taxes
  • you can work in Europe country if you're not a resident of that country as your UK Limited Company. In Poland (and most of the EU) you become resident if you're >183 days in a tax year in that country. So up to 183 days - go as UK LTD.
  • if you need to register as a company there anyway, use the self-employment form. This is less restricted than in UK. There is no IR35 and nobody asks usually if you're limited or self-employed.
  • self-employment has 3 different ways of being taxed (progressive, linear and special), for simplicity - take linear, then you pay 19% profit tax (income - expense), and 23% VAT (if it's needed) and nothing else. For other (progressive or special) this needs more details from your side.
  • for self-employment you have to pay a kind of NI there (called ZUS). There is a lot of rules, but assume for initial 2 years it's <80 GBP. After 2 years it goes to <200 GBP. If you have your NI paid in UK during that time, then you don't need to pay ZUS at all. For more about this, read about "form A1" on HMRC web - it's a form issued in EU to avoid double health/pension/insurance costs for people working in 1+ EU countries.

Hope I helped someone with this post

[stek]

My girlfriend of 15 years is Polish.......

You are Jimmy Savile and I claim my Five Pounds.....

[herman_g]

Hi,

I did a short stint ( only 8 weeks ) in Warsaw this time last year.

My daily rate was better than I get in the UK.

The work was actual "nearsourced" UK work - brought to Poland in order to make it cheaper. They needed me, so they paid my price as long as they could. The UK managers were always out and trying to get them to not extend me another week or so. The truth is the locals were highly qualified ( eg. testers were brilliant, especially compared to the Bobs normally at the clients over here ) and Romanians were willing to work the market for peanuts.

My girlfriend of 15 years is Polish ( best girls in the world ), so she was over with me. However, I fell in love with a new "hottest woman I ever saw" on the tram everyday - it was heaven!

In short, loved it and would go back there in a hearbeat.

[SpontaneousOrder]

and girls are pretty.

This. I've never known anything like it.

[yasockie]

If it's in a major city, consider that the living costs, while slightly cheaper than UK are not that different anymore, so I wouldn't advise lowering the rate too much.
There are definitely areas where high rates are attainable, simple supply and demand IMO.
One area that comes to mind is SAP, another is fracking (in the oil&gas industry).
I've also noticed a pattern where contractors and expats often form the initial bit a major move into a given market and it is a good position to be in as you can then end up being say head of EMEA (if you choose to go permie, of course)
There's plenty of flights and cheap too, the food is good, vodka is cheap and girls are pretty.
If the rate is good, I'd say go for it.

[GazCol]

I contracted in Wroclaw just after Euro 2012. The rate was around a third of my usual but the cost of living and the generous tax laws (from memory, it wasn’t as high as 32% it was 15% for the equivalent of CT and around 7% in local taxes, which can differ from city to city.) made it feasible. One of the most difficult things with contracting abroad is usually finding a cross border tax expert that is i) trustworthy ii) cheap iii) doesn’t try and get you onto a dodgy and highly illegal scheme, and lastly iv) speaks English to a high enough level to properly explain everything and has some presence in this country. Fortunately, that’s one thing Poland was good at.

Like any contract abroad though, only do it for the experience, not the fiscal gain, because the latter will only leave you disappointed. Get a boutique apartment/hotel in the old town, get on the ale every night with the locals and make the most of it.

[Scrag Meister]

Double your rate and tell them you are open to negotiation.

You will have hotels and flights etc.... to pay for.

[sandyh2001in]

I dunno about Poland but the rates for Middle East jobs dropped through the floor many years ago. Last time I had a look the rates out there were equivalent to a rate here so really not worth it unless you had a desire to be out there. The days of monster rates for working in different countries are long gone. If you can get much more than the rates you are quoting there I would be surprised. Maybe push for them paying for the travel and accommodation instead of a rate uplift?

It also doesn't cost that much to get there and accommodation will be cheap as chips so their argument is the cost and hassle wouldn't be much more than travelling down the UK to work in London.

I think it will come down to your preference. Would you be happy working for those rates in Poland?

Problem is, there being no points of reference , its really a case of finger in the air rate quote.
I quoted him an obscene amount (20 percent higher than what Im on at the minute just to allay my own fears of the unknown ) and felt his head explode over the phone. He still wants to keep me in the running in any case and in fairness came back with some encouraging info ( 25 % expenses allowable after which a flat 19 percent tax rate) .

I am (quag)mired in Belgium right now so looking for a way out anyway, so dont really mind going at the same rate Im on here either. And Poland could be a whole new experience and probably do some good to the CV, so...

[northernladuk]

I dunno about Poland but the rates for Middle East jobs dropped through the floor many years ago. Last time I had a look the rates out there were equivalent to a rate here so really not worth it unless you had a desire to be out there. The days of monster rates for working in different countries are long gone. If you can get much more than the rates you are quoting there I would be surprised. Maybe push for them paying for the travel and accommodation instead of a rate uplift?

It also doesn't cost that much to get there and accommodation will be cheap as chips so their argument is the cost and hassle wouldn't be much more than travelling down the UK to work in London.

I think it will come down to your preference. Would you be happy working for those rates in Poland?

[kevpuk]

I was the same position a while back turned out the rate they wanted to pay was £20/hr max.

[stek]

I was the same position a while back turned out the rate they wanted to pay was £20/hr max.

[d000hg]

If that's the rate you charge for "working away" roles within the UK, then about the same for overseas sounds OK. If you normally work locally, clearly you'd have lots of extra costs.

[sandyh2001in]

Afternoon Gents

Anyone done any contract work in Poland? I had an agent call me this AM looking to fill a contract position urgently in my niche area. He wouldn’t name a figure (gave me some BS about clients haven’t disclosed their budget yet?!, looks like some kind of fishing expedition methinks) and asked me to quote a rate. Any ideas what the prevailing rates are in Poland? UK side , rates in my area are around GBP 450-550 for my kind of roles. Would you charge extra for the inconvenience factor (Poland being not one of your usual IT destinations so don’t think there are that many people willing to travel the distance) ? Or on the other hand, cost of living being lower as well as that Poland taxation isn’t that bad on the face of it (32 percent max ) , would you accept rates similar to what they are here.

Your thoughts please?