Reply to: ISEB BCS Business Analysis International Diploma

[Cenobite]

Sorry Cenobite, I didn't mean anything by that

Ha! No offence taken.

[cojak]

But this is my contention: I'm not starting from zero. I've always been an analyst/developer. There's no such thing as a pure programming job any more: since the developers are often generally competent, they do much of the analysis, deployment, technical and systems architecture, and some testing.

Also, it's ten days, four exams and an oral exam (not sure if agents know that though). That sounds more substantial than a one day course with a certificate of attendance.

As an Agile Analyst, your main task is to talk non-technical with the customer and technical with the developers. I've been doing that for years and I think my development background gives me an advantage: the few BAs I've worked with have never written a line of code so don't know how precise requirements have to be in order they can be converted to code.

You're not the only one: I'm not convincing the agents either.

Sorry Cenobite, I didn't mean anything by that - your OP said that you were a Dev, I wasn't sure how much analysis you already have.

If I were you I'd seriously look at 'Technical BA' roles, it sounds that with the right training you'd fit right into those roles. They are certainly not my area of expertise.

[Smartie]

This is why I think being an analyst looks like a good bet: many computer languages come and go even though in most cases they're object-oriented and the principles are the same (but try telling that to an agent). When I think about it, the main technologies which have stood the test of time are UNIX and JavaScript.

I guess it means that a BA is largely constrained in where they can work by their domain knowledge. Things like telecoms/banking experience.

It's not as constrained as you might think. Some areas, particularly banking and perhaps insurance are quite difficult without domain knowledge but there's plenty of opportunity for more 'generic' BA's. Many companies have the same basic processes and limited variation in applications for things like finance, HR, sales etc. If you have experience of these it's portable.
Generally they do prefer it if you have domain knowledge of their business but it's something I can generally overcome by demonstrating experience in a lot of different areas and a deep knowledge of the role.

As mentioned above, it is a lot about listening. To reduce it to a single line though I'd say it's about asking the right questions. As with PM roles you need to be able to build good relationships quickly, be able to mediate conflicts and have an understanding of the motivations and politics going on (while trying to avoid joining in).

[Antman]

Me neither but I suppose in general they would call this choking down pole.

[Cenobite]

...and drinking coffee.

I might not be cut out for this: I don't like coffee.

[Antman]

This is why I think being an analyst looks like a good bet: many computer languages come and go even though in most cases they're object-oriented and the principles are the same (but try telling that to an agent). When I think about it, the main technologies which have stood the test of time are UNIX and JavaScript.

I guess it means that a BA is largely constrained in where they can work by their domain knowledge. Things like telecoms/banking experience.

There is some of that domain knowledge in some cases but on the whole I disagree, it's more about listening skills ...and drinking coffee.

[Cenobite]

Also, as you mentioned earlier, it's not so easy to offshore BA & PM roles and skillsets are easier to maintain (no need to learn the latest language).

This is why I think being an analyst looks like a good bet: many computer languages come and go even though in most cases they're object-oriented and the principles are the same (but try telling that to an agent). When I think about it, the main technologies which have stood the test of time are UNIX and JavaScript.

I guess it means that a BA is largely constrained in where they can work by their domain knowledge. Things like telecoms/banking experience.

[Cenobite]

If you really must do it on contract and you truly believe you have the required skills and experience, I would be 'creative' with the CV.

I've got to get with the program: everyone else is doing it! You should read some of the CVs that have landed on my desk and the discrepancies which become apparent at interview.

[original PM]

I hope it's not a declining market, because the necessity for the Agile Analyst is often questioned by the rest of the Scrum team, as described here Do we need a Business Analyst on an agile team? | ThoughtWorks

In my view you need someone who
a) Knows what the system does, how it works and what context it is used in
b) Can relate non technical requirements into techncial solutions
c) understands BA tools and can use them to extract user requirements.

Whether that is a BA, SME, Technical Soluton Architect or something else I do not know.

[Smartie]

I hope it's not a declining market, because the necessity for the Agile Analyst is often questioned by the rest of the Scrum team, as described here Do we need a Business Analyst on an agile team? | ThoughtWorks

There's an ongoing debate around whether a 'BA' is needed in Agile projects however I don't see any drop in demand - a good BA on the team is a major asset. Also, as you mentioned earlier, it's not so easy to offshore BA & PM roles and skillsets are easier to maintain (no need to learn the latest language).

I moved to pure BA (then BA/PM) from analyst/programmer roles several years ago but I did it via a permanent role. If you really must do it on contract and you truly believe you have the required skills and experience, I would be 'creative' with the CV. Have to be sure you can back it up though!

[Cenobite]

that is interesting - as that is what i do (or part of what I do!).

and I think it is becoming more and more relevant as tradational waterfall is just not working as it should.

we have just spent about 12 months gathering requirements - developed and the first code drop was so far from what was needed it was scary. I have just found more and more users simply do not get engaged until the have buttons to press and outputs to review - doing it in an abstract manner seems not to work.

for me it now needs to be high level designs and then do beta drops while having an Agile BA in the room...

maybe just where I am at the moment!

I hope it's not a declining market, because the necessity for the Agile Analyst is often questioned by the rest of the Scrum team, as described here Do we need a Business Analyst on an agile team? | ThoughtWorks

[original PM]

that is interesting - as that is what i do (or part of what I do!).

and I think it is becoming more and more relevant as tradational waterfall is just not working as it should.

we have just spent about 12 months gathering requirements - developed and the first code drop was so far from what was needed it was scary. I have just found more and more users simply do not get engaged until the have buttons to press and outputs to review - doing it in an abstract manner seems not to work.

for me it now needs to be high level designs and then do beta drops while having an Agile BA in the room...

maybe just where I am at the moment!

[Cenobite]

Just out of interest can you describe what an Agile BA would do?

According to a text like the Pragmatic Programmers' "The Agile Samurai", an Agile Analyst chairs story-gathering workshops but at this stage they can literally be at the level of a few words on a card. Then the analyst does a deep-dive on the requirements for the user stories scheduled for the next iteration. Essentially that's work a developer could do but it frees up the developer to spend more time coding and less time in meetings. The analyst tries to capture requirements as specification-by-example rather than slaving over electronically persisted UML diagrams.

Whereas a traditional BA might help prioritise user stories, in Scrum the customer prioritises them.

AFAIK that's it.

[Cenobite]

Pure BA roles: sit around drinking coffee all day

On another point, the difficulty I find with marketing yourself as one or the other (and having CVs to match) is that you only have one linkedin profile which dilutes the message you're trying to get over..

Haha! I've thought exactly this. My job titles are down as analyst/developer. I've thought about removing my profile because of this, but even though I'm not a big fan of LinkedIn, I'd be suspicious of someone who didn't have one at all, especially if their CV said they had a lot of qualifications. That's one thing about LinkedIn, in that there's an element of peer review because you'll alienate your contacts if you start blagging on there.

[Antman]

Pure BA roles: sit around drinking coffee all day

On another point, the difficulty I find with marketing yourself as one or the other (and having CVs to match) is that you only have one linkedin profile which dilutes the message you're trying to get over. Although you can focus on achievements on it, agents/clients will still see what you brand yourself as before diving in.