Reply to: Swapping contracts/ Ending new contract

[Old Greg]

I don't disagree, and I set my working hours dependent on what needs doing that day, but let's be clear that 8 + 5 = 13 and the client is isn't responsible for the 5.... That's the point.

It depends of course on how the 13 hours is split up. If he has a journey from home to train station and is working in Docklands I guess he could have 5 hour round trip.

But there's always a way out if you want out.

[TheFaQQer]

I've asked about right of substitution on here before and I don't think anyone on here has ever been able to do it (I guess someone will now say they have of course).

I haven't, but I have worked on a project where a couple of people did it.

[jmo21]

Lesson learned I guess, agent and client will probably not be happy, but tulip happens.

I've asked about right of substitution on here before and I don't think anyone on here has ever been able to do it (I guess someone will now say they have of course).

And frankly, in most cases with IT contracts, why would a client want to do that, even if it is in the contract? Well it's in the agent->contractor contract of course, but is it in the client->agent contract?

I've never been convinced RoS clause works in real life.

[northernladuk]

I don't disagree, and I set my working hours dependent on what needs doing that day, but let's be clear that 8 + 5 = 13 and the client is isn't responsible for the 5.... That's the point.

And that is how I read it. It is 13 hours of his time which included travel which the OP now can't stomach. Not sure how he didn't think he would have a problem with this before he signed the contract.

[malvolio]

The guy wants out. He's found a replacement. The bridges will be burned so do it in the best way possible that you won;t find yourself penalised and move on.

PWD is all very well but ultimately, if the client demands more than a standard 8 hour day every day and never shows flexibility, then I would consider that 'taking the piss' to use the technical term in my company policy and I would consider finding a way out. It is also about direction and control. You're on site for 10 hours (or whatever) every day because the client tells you to? Not me.

I don't disagree, and I set my working hours dependent on what needs doing that day, but let's be clear that 8 + 5 = 13 and the client is isn't responsible for the 5.... That's the point.

[curtis]

At the end of the day some things don't work out, if you have a notice period use it. It won't be ideal the client may not be happy or the agent but things happen and you never always know how a job will be out till you start.

You have a notice period, if it was the other way round and the work dried up they could exercise their right according to the contract to serve you notice if not get rid of you instantly. Have a chat with the client and say what's happening, if it makes it easier make up some big family issue and you wish you did not have to leave but you do. Things can happen its not like they will know and maybe that might make the agent a bit nicer also about it!

At the end of the day fast forward a few weeks after you have left you will be old news to the client and agent. The main thing is you do what's in accordance with your contract in which case you have done nothing contractually wrong.

[Old Greg]

Well that will work. What about travel time? Clients tend not to pay you to get there: if it's a 5 hours round trip that's not their problem. Also a PWD means just that; do any work in a 24 hour period on their behalf and you charge a set fee. The trick is to ensure the one hour days exceed the 23 hour ones. How long you think your day is is immaterial.

Perhaps I'm biased: I spent years commuting that much every day to work in the Smoke so I was earning London rates and living in rural Somerset.

The guy wants out. He's found a replacement. The bridges will be burned so do it in the best way possible that you won;t find yourself penalised and move on.

PWD is all very well but ultimately, if the client demands more than a standard 8 hour day every day and never shows flexibility, then I would consider that 'taking the piss' to use the technical term in my company policy and I would consider finding a way out. It is also about direction and control. You're on site for 10 hours (or whatever) every day because the client tells you to? Not me.

[malvolio]

Tell them that you have been prepared to be flexible and work 13 hour days on a short term basis but that your standard company professional day is 8 hours and that is what you are able to offer on a routine basis, although you will be delighted to show some flexibility on an ongoing basis in times of particularly high workload. If they find that arrangement difficult to work with, you will as a goodwill gesture waive any notice period and associated payments so they can find a supplier that more closely aligns with their business requirements. In any case, you will be happy to be contacted for a period of time to hand over to the new contractor.

Well that will work. What about travel time? Clients tend not to pay you to get there: if it's a 5 hours round trip that's not their problem. Also a PWD means just that; do any work in a 24 hour period on their behalf and you charge a set fee. The trick is to ensure the one hour days exceed the 23 hour ones. How long you think your day is is immaterial.

Perhaps I'm biased: I spent years commuting that much every day to work in the Smoke so I was earning London rates and living in rural Somerset.

[Old Greg]

Tell them that you have been prepared to be flexible and work 13 hour days on a short term basis but that your standard company professional day is 8 hours and that is what you are able to offer on a routine basis, although you will be delighted to show some flexibility on an ongoing basis in times of particularly high workload. If they find that arrangement difficult to work with, you will as a goodwill gesture waive any notice period and associated payments so they can find a supplier that more closely aligns with their business requirements. In any case, you will be happy to be contacted for a period of time to hand over to the new contractor.

[northernladuk]

OP... are you through a brolly or LTD?

[TheFaQQer]

For a month? Isn't going to kill him. Getting the agent to pay him is going to be a ball ache though

Saying that, jacking it so early and talking about going PAYE I am wondering if he even opened a LTD.

It's not going to kill him, but it's something that he needs to be aware of. If he jacks it in, then the expenses claimed need to be sorted; if there is no intention to contract anywhere else, then the expense claims need to stop.

So, even if there is an intention to do more work on this one contract and then stop and go permie elsewhere, then the expenses are still an issue.

[northernladuk]

*cough*
Permanent place of work? Expenses?
*cough*

For a month? Isn't going to kill him. Getting the agent to pay him is going to be a ball ache though

Saying that, jacking it so early and talking about going PAYE I am wondering if he even opened a LTD.

[TheFaQQer]

Not so much implications but will need considering. Not a big issue though.

*cough*
Permanent place of work? Expenses?
*cough*

[TheFaQQer]

Hi, i have recently started a contract in London on good money but didn't think how much the commute from Southampton would impact my work/life balance. The client company doesn't believe in flexible working and due to the work load I have my days are 13 hours minimum. I know I chose it but for similar money I can work close to home.

Have you tried searching the forum for how to terminate a contract? I think it might have been discussed once (or possibly twice) before.

So what do i do to get out in a respectable manner?
as I have gone through an agency I think the notice period is 30 days. I have found a fellow PM who can replace me ( he was actually the runner up for the job).

What does the contract say? If you are actually going to terminate the contract, then what does the contract say that you need to do? Work that out, and then do it.

Alternatively, if your contract has a RoS clause, and you have someone that can replace you, then don't terminate the contract, invoke that clause and get the substitute in. You need to check whether their rate will impact your VAT registration if you are on FRS. If the contract says that the client has approval, then you need to see whether they will approve your substitute - particularly since they have already rejected them once.

Do you think if I replaced myself and did hand overs etc will I still get paid for my work and be allowed a shorter notice period?

If you have done the work, then you should be paid for that work. Whether they will let you leave early is a matter of negotiation.

Also are there any implications from a tax perspective if I chose to go PAYE again after only one month of contracting?

Yes. Particularly around expenses that you have already claimed.

Just don't want to annoy the client or agency...

So stay, then. However you leave, it's going to annoy the client and the agency.

[northernladuk]

Two ways.One option is to give the notice required, take a bit of crap from the agent and client and then bow out if it is possible. You could also try negotiate a quicker exit. Obviously lesson learnt here is to not sign a bloody contract with a 30 day notice period on. That is just ridiculous. Did someone not point out that 30 days + is also a pointer towards inside IR35? I could be wrong.

You do however mention a substitute which could work a bloody treat for you. Read up on RoS or Right Of Substitution and it's relation to IR35. It is as close to water tight get out as you can get at the moment. Exercise your RoS, get the other guy in under your company and keep invoicing them. Obviously sort a way out of paying him. Client is happy, agent happy, you happy, other guy happy and HMRC with not a leg to stand on. Super win.

I am assuming you have a clue what IR35 is of course

Also are there any implications from a tax perspective if I chose to go PAYE again after only one month of contracting?

Not so much implications but will need considering. Not a big issue though. Did you get an accountant? Getting out of your yearly fee with the accountant may be the biggest issue.

Thanks in advance for your advice... Just don't want to annoy the client or agency...

Bit late for that. You can't have your cake and eat it. You committed to a contract that everyone expects you to honour. To bin it in less than month is a pretty poor carry on so someone in the chain is going to be understandably unhappy.