Reply to: Walking away from an extension offer

[cojak]

I sure have. I've caught the agent lying on three separate counts. Today she lied again. She told me yesterday she would call back 4pm today after giving me 24 hours to take or leave the offer. Last night I emailed her saying my rate is £x and the offer does not show £x. At 4pm I told her I'll do the work but for my £x rate. She told me, I'm not telling them that, I'm telling them you are refusing their final offer and don't want to work there anymore. I told her no, I do want to work there but my price is £x, you tell them that please because that's the truth? She said "I'm not going to tell them the truth". I said, "oh yes you are, you don't lie in my name or omit details, distort, spin, just tell them the truth!". She said OK then I'll just say you want more money. I said no, you will tell them I will gladly take the contract but at the revised rate of £x. Anything other than the truth, the whole truth and nothing from the truth from her to end-client I will consider as a lie.

And guess what, after I phoned her boss up to complain that she was telling me she was not going to tell the end-client the truth, her boss called me back after investigating and said he'd found an email that morning of her telling the client I was rejecting their offer as I wanted a rate of £x to do this work. So her 4pm deadline was nonsense as she had already told the client I was rejecting their rate. The end-client had not come back to her on that yet. Her call to me was in the afternoon claiming it was a final offer and that if I turned it down I wouldn't be back at end-client at all and no further negotiation would take place. That call was all lies, I called her bluff, and I'm a MAN with a big fat cheesy grin on my face this evening.

Good for you fella.

And on the basis that this thread is moving out of useful information and into General territory, I'm locking it.

[masonryan]

I laughed as well!

Running rings round the agent- You crafty devil you!!!

I did, as every time she said "that can't be changed" with some bs "standard contracts" as "that's what all the other contractors there have can't change it just for one person blah blah blah blah but" actually she ended up magically changing it when I demanded it changed. So I consider that a lie. And I enjoyed reminding her of these lies.

What she should have said was "I'll put that to the client to see if it can be changed" not say "it's impossible for that to change" when it absolutely was.

[masonryan]

I had to laugh! The agency does not actually work for you so you cannot 'sack' it. You walk away from the offered contract.

Yes I did sack them, as the original one said "we can only ask the question" about a rate rise. If end-client says "no" then they stop there, they said. They said they were just 'managing' the contract and were not making much money from it so it wasn't worth their time negotiating it. So I said, that's not good enough and end-client said I could use another agency and that the agents are meant to represent my interests, negotiation of terms is part of that and they had no business refusing to do this. The new agent assured me they would negotiate not just transmit the client's offer to me. But in reality, this agent is doing nothing but represent the end-client's interest to me, trying to bully me to accept it fuelled with lies about 'final offers', deadlines and ultimatums to get me to back down. They failed. I'm a MAN.

[masonryan]

I laughed as well!

Running rings round the agent- You crafty devil you!!!

I sure have. I've caught the agent lying on three separate counts. Today she lied again. She told me yesterday she would call back 4pm today after giving me 24 hours to take or leave the offer. Last night I emailed her saying my rate is £x and the offer does not show £x. At 4pm I told her I'll do the work but for my £x rate. She told me, I'm not telling them that, I'm telling them you are refusing their final offer and don't want to work there anymore. I told her no, I do want to work there but my price is £x, you tell them that please because that's the truth? She said "I'm not going to tell them the truth". I said, "oh yes you are, you don't lie in my name or omit details, distort, spin, just tell them the truth!". She said OK then I'll just say you want more money. I said no, you will tell them I will gladly take the contract but at the revised rate of £x. Anything other than the truth, the whole truth and nothing from the truth from her to end-client I will consider as a lie.

And guess what, after I phoned her boss up to complain that she was telling me she was not going to tell the end-client the truth, her boss called me back after investigating and said he'd found an email that morning of her telling the client I was rejecting their offer as I wanted a rate of £x to do this work. So her 4pm deadline was nonsense as she had already told the client I was rejecting their rate. The end-client had not come back to her on that yet. Her call to me was in the afternoon claiming it was a final offer and that if I turned it down I wouldn't be back at end-client at all and no further negotiation would take place. That call was all lies, I called her bluff, and I'm a MAN with a big fat cheesy grin on my face this evening.

[No2politics]

I had to laugh! The agency does not actually work for you so you cannot 'sack' it. You walk away from the offered contract.

That is sensible if the deal does not suit you......nothing to do with being ruthless.

As another poster said how do you explain your unprofessional attitude (not turning up to fulfil your contract) to the client? You are not running rings round the agent. You are just being petulant and will need some restorative surgery to the centre of your face in due course.

I laughed as well!

Running rings round the agent- You crafty devil you!!!

[Taita]

Yes. One agency refused to negotiate better terms for the extension, so I told them if that's the best you can do you're sacked and I'll work with another agent. So I did. I'm ruthless.

This new agency promised to negotiate better terms for me, thankfully taking up the new business I offered them. But they failed to improve anything, in fact they worsened the terms slightly. So for the last 3 days I have not turned up to the site and am running rings around the agent.

I had to laugh! The agency does not actually work for you so you cannot 'sack' it. You walk away from the offered contract.

That is sensible if the deal does not suit you......nothing to do with being ruthless.

As another poster said how do you explain your unprofessional attitude (not turning up to fulfil your contract) to the client? You are not running rings round the agent. You are just being petulant and will need some restorative surgery to the centre of your face in due course.

[herman_g]

How have you explained your absence and complete lack of professionalism to the client? Personally, if your attitude in work is the same as you describe here, I'm astounded you find any work, let alone an extension.

WTFS

[TheFaQQer]

Yes. One agency refused to negotiate better terms for the extension, so I told them if that's the best you can do you're sacked and I'll work with another agent. So I did. I'm ruthless.

This new agency promised to negotiate better terms for me, thankfully taking up the new business I offered them. But they failed to improve anything, in fact they worsened the terms slightly. So for the last 3 days I have not turned up to the site and am running rings around the agent.

I'm with NLUK on this one.

You "sacked" an agent because they wouldn't get better terms for you, regardless of whether any were available or not. You appointed another agent and fell for their spin (of course, you checked for restraint clauses between you and the first agent, and between the first agent and the client first, didn't you?).

And now you class not turning up as "running rings around the agent" rather than the more appropriate "looking like a buffoon in front of the client".

How have you explained your absence and complete lack of professionalism to the client? Personally, if your attitude in work is the same as you describe here, I'm astounded you find any work, let alone an extension.

[TheFaQQer]

Hi there, have you ever walked away from an extension offer?

Yes

What's a contractor to do?

If you don't like it, walk.

I have a good war chest so don't 'need' the money. But obviously a job beats dole, well, usually.

So don't turn down the extension.

Do you lie to agents you have a counter-offer to force their hand to improve their offer?

No.

Have you walked away from a 'final offer' claim only to be contacted a week later with a revised deal?

Yes

This contract is in the financial industry and the end client makes a healthy profit.

That's irrelevant

[saptastic]

Just want to add that OK the OP sounds like they dont know too much. (a bit like me some would say ).

Still dont understand why people feel the need to be nasty. Never have, never will understand why its like this on the forum.

Its not as if someone is physically coming to talk to you and wasting your time. Its an internet forum FFS, if you don't like /aren't interested in what someone posts just ignore it.

+1.

[ContractorsSpouse]

In response to your original questions;

Hi there, have you ever walked away from an extension offer?

This happens, I imagine in most cases it's when there is a better offer elsewhere, but I know people who have decided to just take a break for a while rather than work for too little.

I took up a 3-month contract job at a discounted rate as I had been out of work for a while. Now they are offering a 3-month extension but on the same discounted terms. The discount is half of the rate I have been paid in the last ten years.

If you made it clear to the agency that this was a 'discounted rate' then you can remind the agency of this when negotiating. But they probably think that bevause you accepted this rate 3 months ago you'll do the same now. And I don't imagine for one minute the agency cares what your previous rates were...

What's a contractor to do? I have a good war chest so don't 'need' the money. But obviously a job beats dole, well, usually.

That's your call.

Do you lie to agents you have a counter-offer to force their hand to improve their offer?

No need, you don't have to give any reasons, just tell them you aren't interested in renewing at that rate.

Have you walked away from a 'final offer' claim only to be contacted a week later with a revised deal?

I'm sure this happens, it's part of negotiating, but if you walk away you need to be prepared to NOT be contacted with a revised deal.

This contract is in the financial industry and the end client makes a healthy profit.

Good for them, no doubt one of the reasons they make a good profit is that they pay suppliers/people as little as possible.

You have 2 options; accept the ongoing rate, or hold out for a higher one and be prepared to lose the deal (and move on). You don't have to make up facts around not accepting, you simply tell them that at that rate you're not looking to renew.

Hope this helps.

[psychocandy]

Just want to add that OK the OP sounds like they dont know too much. (a bit like me some would say ).

Still dont understand why people feel the need to be nasty. Never have, never will understand why its like this on the forum.

Its not as if someone is physically coming to talk to you and wasting your time. Its an internet forum FFS, if you don't like /aren't interested in what someone posts just ignore it.

[malvolio]

How about, just for some light relief, you pretend you're the agent, and consider her business position. People telling you something as part of negotiation stance is not lying, it's testing your boundaries. And you're not the most important element of this proposed deal, despite your own opinion of your value, merely the most expedient. If either agent or client get sufficiently teed off with your demands, you will vanish very quickly indeed.

And in three months you will start the whole process again, without anyone needing to hang on to you. Live with it.

[masonryan]

Given the way you describe the project, I think it would be a real pain for them to lose you now and since I'm a cynical old bastard, I see the offer of a permie job for BAU unconvincing.

I agree with you. I think they dangled a permie BAU in front of me hoping I would just work 6 months on a low contract rate without complaining then they would offer an underwhelming permie BAU, or none at all, as they've already recruited permies for that team since I've been there. Very easy for them to say, oh sorry but the roles are now filled.

The agent doesn't want to upset the client and I suspect may have given the impression that your renewal is in the bag and so doesn't want to argue for more money. They'll only get a few quid commission extra since its a renewal so the agent will likely get a smaller cut and they want to keep the client sweet so they can sell more bodies.

That's right. This agent is desperate for me to just accept the 'offer' given and has been putting pressure and time limits on the offer all day. But her story doesn't add up.

[masonryan]

Dominic Connor - thank you. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience with me. I have taken up your advice and stated my price for the extension, for which I can start immediately. I know that for them to find a replacement it won't be easy. Furthermore, they've let the cat out of the bag by admitting they would want me to work the whole three months with only 2 weeks off please - that tells me they have a lot of work they want me to do. The recruiter lied by saying if I don't take up the offer they will pass the work to internal staff. This is clearly nonsense - if that were the case, they would just do that anyway and not bother offering me anything, especially as this company 'dislikes' contractors. The agency have given me a 24 hour time period to accept or reject this 'final' offer. I am not going to do either, except repeat the price for my services.