Reply to: Request to work 12 hour shifts out of hours etc

[Antman]

Anyone else surprised?

I'm still catching up, I'm at the part where he's mildly surprised the farmer wouldn't let him have some manure for his roses.

[TheFaQQer]

Hmmm. Had a bit of a 'disagreement' with PM last night.

Anyone else surprised?

[Contreras]

Hmmm. Had a bit of a 'disagreement' with PM last night.

Very strange fella.

Never mind. Just cross him off your Christmas card list and keep invoicing.

[psychocandy]

Hmmm. Had a bit of a 'disagreement' with PM last night.

Very strange fella. Its an outsourcing company so all he seems concerned about is making himself look good to his end client by having the place packed with bodies.

Had a problem last night that I was not involved in. There were already 4-5 people involved and it was not something I had any experience in (and I was doing other stuff).

Anyway, shortly before end of my 12 hours he tried to say everyone had to stay. Pointless for me to just sit there. And they had night shift coming in anyway. Don;t think he was too impressed with me.

[psychocandy]

Basically, that is exactly how most clients see contractors. They don't care about IR35, how you get paid, your tax etc, and nor should they.

Agreed. ALL clients just want you to show up, do the work, and not cause a fuss and upset the permies. However, MOST clients I've ever experienced do tend to leave you alone to get on with it and don't hassle you like they do the permies.

This includes criticism of hours worked, comments about dress code, general thinking they can 'tell' contractors what hours to work and how to behave. Not to me but generally to all contractors. It is exaclty like being a permie for a few weeks.

Last client, for all their issues, never told me what time to turn up, never moaned if I turned up late, never told me what to wear, and left me alone. I was there for over two years but not once did I get this hassle.

[jmo21]

Yes agreed. Somewhat worrying the way the way the client views contractors I must admit. To be honest, they do seem to treat like short term permies. i.e. usual telling you what to do crap etc. Bit of an attitude also that they 'own' you for the period that you're working for them which is not on.

Basically, that is exactly how most clients see contractors. They don't care about IR35, how you get paid, your tax etc, and nor should they.

[psychocandy]

FTFY

Yes agreed. Somewhat worrying the way the way the client views contractors I must admit. To be honest, they do seem to treat like short term permies. i.e. usual telling you what to do crap etc. Bit of an attitude also that they 'own' you for the period that you're working for them which is not on.

If push comes to shove, it would be difficult to argue that this was definitely outside IR35 it must be said. But, like I've always said, its a 7 weeks contract.

No extension on the table anyway but I won't be extending. Working here for a long contract and then having HMRC knock on the door would be a definite worry.

[Gaz_M]

Are we talking about UCAS here?

[Old Greg]

FTFY

This is great. If only we could do some kind of chimeric hybrid between PC and suity.

[TheFaQQer]

Hang on guys - you told me to do this!

FTFY

[psychocandy]

It gets worse....

Two weeks ago they asked me to work shifts.

OK. Bit of hassle. Being one hour+ drive away meant a bit of an early start but I was willing to be flexible so there we go. Also, it meant the traffic would be pretty good.

Yes, I know the old IR35 control and direction comes into it a bit here but its only for 7-8 weeks.

So, as you can see, early shifts equal more hours. So week 1 total was something like 41 hours. Week 2 it was 36.5 (due to early finish friday).

You can guess. PM flags week 2 up as 'not enough hours'. Hang on guys - you asked me to do this!

[psychocandy]

Why should you even consider a day rate under these (or indeed any other) circumstances?

Get paid per hour.

I didn't. It was on the understanding that shifts were paid at a premium.
Maybe it would have been an idea to get this in the contract at the start but it wasn't going to happen. 8 weeks contract so I had to take a little risk that it would get sorted. Of course, if they'd subsequently decided that they were expecting a 12 hour day for standard day then it would be up to me to walk or not.

It has been sorted though. To be fair, I was happy to do 12 hours at 1.5 whether it be night, day, weekend. Client offered more for nights, weekends so happy with that.

[flipFlop]

Why should you even consider a day rate under these (or indeed any other) circumstances?

Get paid per hour.

[BlasterBates]

Generally, if you´re contracted with a professional day or you are a permie, whether you do longer hours is a personal decision, obviously this will be reflected in your bonus, pay rise, renewal but no-one has to do it. In the past I have worked longer hours, but it was my own "ambition to get the project finished". These days I think it´s unlikely I would do, I´m quite happy to be laid off at the next round as one of the ones who doesn´t pull their weight as much as others. It is important though to stay focused during your 8 hours so they accept you´re doing your job satisfactorily.

[No2politics]

It is true that clients do tend to piss me off. But then I expect to be treated as I treat others. I.e. fairly and professionally.

But I agree that maybe this is something that is never going to happen.....

Not quite I agree that I don't understand the relationship to be honest. They pay me (maybe via an agency) to perform work which my company does. Both sides perform reasonably and professionally throughout the relationship. Not much to expect.

BTW - yes clients do continually pee me off but the money doesn'nt. But I agree sometimes I do wonder if its worth it.

Trouble is permies get the same if not worse :-(

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn9E5i7l-Eg