Reply to: Rail Roaded - electronic contract acceptance? fed up

[SueEllen]

Tell them that there is no accept button when you use Dolphin browser on Ubuntu, which is all you have available.

That should baffle them enough to get a paper / PDF copy to physically sign.

That's a good one.

After all your CV is written using LibreOffice right.

[tractor]

...

I had this on a recent contract with Lorien. I was firm on the review, opti in/out clause and other clauses that I wanted changing. Their system is driven by lawyers who expect the default position is that contractors will accept anything stuffed in front of their noses.

The agent was good about it, got the changes made, fixed the opt in issue and updated the electronic contract which I could then accept.

To be fair, Lorien were very good, honoured the contract implicitly including negotiated payment terms etc. Overall I was pleased with it.

That being said the rate was on the low side but it was short term.

As long as there is an offer on the table, within reason the OP's agent is likely to accomodate them. Hold out for what you require.

[jmo21]

Normally, you would simply not sign the contract and let the agent know why.

This new fangled way, just don't click "accept", and let the agent know why.

Availability of contracts in your field has nothing to do with this "click to accept" way of accepting a contract, you'd have the same issue the normal way.

[TheFaQQer]

Tell them that there is no accept button when you use Dolphin browser on Ubuntu, which is all you have available.

That should baffle them enough to get a paper / PDF copy to physically sign.

[stillooking]

You are presuming there is a refuse contract button - some agencies who use online contracts don't have them.

That's right in my instance there isn't a refuse button


thanks for the replies.

[SueEllen]

That said, if you know the terms to be poorly drafted, click the Refuse Contract tab and provide the requisite explanation why. Then get the contract reviewed and email the proposed changes. With some luck and negotiation, the agency will update and reissue the contract.

You are presuming there is a refuse contract button - some agencies who use online contracts don't have them.

[Swamp Thing]

Tell the agent that you can't accept the contract via the online system because you need to get it reviewed. Ask them for either a PDF copy or a paper copy, so that you can send it off.

The idea that you might want to take advice shouldn't be a new one to them, so they should have a process to deal with it all.

+1.
Automated contracts is not a bad idea on its own (similar thinking to say, self-billing). It's just a process efficiency enhancement, the agency isn't using it to make you cock up IR35-wise.

That said, if you know the terms to be poorly drafted, click the Refuse Contract tab and provide the requisite explanation why. Then get the contract reviewed and email the proposed changes. With some luck and negotiation, the agency will update and reissue the contract.

I've been using this system for the last 3-4 years and have no issue with it. But the usual review rules apply I'm afraid because behind every improved system is a bunch of planks who aren't educated/interested in IR35 issues. In my case I have leveraged a long-term relationship with the client to get the agency to co-operate with the review.

N.B. where the agency issues contract extension/renewal online, don't assume the same terms roll forward. Check it line by line.

[TheFaQQer]

Tell the agent that you can't accept the contract via the online system because you need to get it reviewed. Ask them for either a PDF copy or a paper copy, so that you can send it off.

The idea that you might want to take advice shouldn't be a new one to them, so they should have a process to deal with it all.

[stillooking]

They rely on desperate newbies like you to make this carp work.

Sorry to be harsh but that's the truth of the matter - your attitude to roll-over means that they hold all the cards.

I didnt turn up to my current contract until I'd got the contract reviewed - I would have walked away from this one.

Agree they do rely on newbies to make it work.

See previous reply in detail to Nthn Lad, I'm not a newbie though by any means. Wish I was! I don't roll-over and I certainly don't depress rates. I know what the market is. A lot of newbies (and clients/agents/the market) have mucked up my sector for sure. Same for a lot of people of course. Still I'll have a sleep on it

[stillooking]

Really? I am worried about every word, which is why I have it professionally checked before signature and if it isn't exactly what I want I would be happy to walk. You heard of IR35? Those 95% are what is killing contracting and keeping HMRC at our door IMO.

The trouble is, in my line of work I do get involved with , for example service (& IT) contracts (I'm no legal expert though), and because i know a little bit (dangerous I know) it makes it worse if you see what I mean. Yes I've heard of IR35 (for 12 yrs I think), it really has lost me a small fortune as I've been arguably too cautious almost paranoid some may might say! I've walked away too often now...my skills/experience are OK but not 'special' enough, more people coming into (my)the market sector.

"You heard of IR35? Those 95% are what is killing contracting and keeping HMRC at our door IMO. "- totally agree with you

thanks for your replies

[northernladuk]

I would say the overall process could assist agencies, the contract broadly speaking is a generalist one, it's not the worst one I've seen, it touches on temp staff as well as contractors etc., The schedule window refers v.briefly to the assignment. The issue is what if you're concerned with the detail? 95% of temp/contractors don't worry too much, I think.

Thanks again.

Really? I am worried about every word, which is why I have it professionally checked before signature and if it isn't exactly what I want I would be happy to walk. You heard of IR35? Those 95% are what is killing contracting and keeping HMRC at our door IMO.

[stillooking]

The plot thickens... You don't have to opt in, you are by default and it also, in the experiences I have had, makes a difference to the contract so be interesting to see how that is handled. Also I thought you had to sign for opt out so not sure how valid clicking a button would be. We could be all wrong and it is actually a very slick system that that does speed up the process... but got this nagging feeling it isn't.

I would say the overall process could assist agencies, the contract broadly speaking is a generalist one, it's not the worst one I've seen, it touches on temp staff as well as contractors etc., The schedule window refers v.briefly to the assignment. The issue is what if you're concerned with the detail? 95% of temp/contractors don't worry too much, I think.

Thanks again.

[cojak]

I was asking because it sounded completely automatic, but you mentioned the agent in your next post so my question was answered.

[stillooking]

Speak to an agent first - this can't be all on-line. Haven't you had an interview for the contract?

Phone call with client that's good enough for me. Just looking for input from people, perhaps they can pm me if they're have time? If not I'll leave it.

[northernladuk]

re. opt in or out etc - there was various acceptance windows, one of which asked me that question, I clicked opt-in..

The plot thickens... You don't have to opt in, you are by default and it also, in the experiences I have had, makes a difference to the contract so be interesting to see how that is handled. Also I thought you had to sign for opt out so not sure how valid clicking a button would be. We could be all wrong and it is actually a very slick system that that does speed up the process... but got this nagging feeling it isn't.