Reply to: Is this permanent package irrestible?

[utternutter]

An obvious question, things like bonus are I guess just added to your total PAYE that year, so a 10k gross bonus really is half of that in your pocket?
Is it the same for car allowance or is it somehow deductible?

Yes, it's all added to the total so there are tax implications which are unfavourable compared to operating through a ltd. company.

Thanks, all! I guess it is looking less attractive from a financial perspective than it was initially. That helps put it in perspective.

[yasockie]

An obvious question, things like bonus are I guess just added to your total PAYE that year, so a 10k gross bonus really is half of that in your pocket?
Is it the same for car allowance or is it somehow deductible?

[utternutter]

Yes, it's in parts - 1/3 at 2, 3 and 4 or 5 (I can't remember if it's 4 or 5) years.

So yes, you'll have to commit for quite a while unless you want to significantly reduce your package.

[b0redom]

They only vest after 4 years? Every single time I've had them they vest over 3-4 years. Usually you get nothing for the first 12 months, then 12/36 or 12/48, then 1/36 or 1/48 per month after that.

If you don't get any at all for 4-5 years I'd pretty much write them off immediately, but then I've never stayed anywhere longer than 3 years (even as a permie).

[TheFaQQer]

True. The stock only vests after 4 - 5 years, which makes it less appealing as no can tell what might happen in between. It's much like delayed gratification, which is a huge part of the package as a whole. Excluding those makes it a lot less appealing, with a basic that is lower than my rate.

Do you have to still be there in 4-5 years to get them? If so, then I wouldn't even consider them as part of the package.

[utternutter]

I've had stock options before a few times. Sometimes they've been worth a bit, sometimes a lot, and sometimes (usually) feck all.

True. The stock only vests after 4 - 5 years, which makes it less appealing despite the dividends that will be accumulated. It's much like delayed gratification, which is a huge part of the package as a whole. Excluding those makes it a lot less appealing, with a basic that is lower than my rate.

[b0redom]

I've had stock options before a few times. Sometimes they've been worth a bit, sometimes a lot, and sometimes (usually) feck all.

If you're being given options rather than actual stock in the company (and even sometimes then), you would probably do well to consider them next to worthless and if it does come off it's a nice surprise.

Same deal with bonuses. If it's a guarenteed bonus, then why isn't it part of your basic pay? What's the bonus linked to? Company performance? Your performance? Who decides on the performance?

Finally, you'll only get the relocation once, and I'd be surprised if it costs you less than 2k to actually move. Taking all the above into consideration is it still worth it?

[utternutter]

£70k + 7k car allowance + up to 10% bonus + matched pension contribution up to 10% + assorted other stuff (life assurance etc.)

That's fantastic! All the best with that.

If I was on your daily rate, then I'd ignore everything I've said and take the permie role.

Well said and thanks

[TheFaQQer]

Interesting. What would that package look like for you?

All depends on the role - the package isn't everything.

If there is a car element, then one assumes that there is an element of travel involved. If there is too much travel, then I don't see much incentive to move from contracting, where at least I can choose where and when I work.

If there is a car element and no travel involved, then I'd just rather have the cash thanks.

Bonus I'd always be wary of - what are the bonus criteria? I've worked for a consultancy where one year it was based on individual performance (and I did very well) but the next it was based on practice performance (where I did very well but the practice as a whole didn't so I got nothing).

How is the stock vested - is it an employee purchase scheme? What are the tax implications? If they are options, then what are the criteria for exercising the options?

Given the relocation, is this somewhere that you want to move to? What do the family think? I regularly get agents asking me about permanent roles in the south, but there's no chance that I'd consider moving there. If the prospects are moving to somewhere that you are going to hate, then the role had better be fantastic to consider that.

I'd also want to know how much holiday time do you get in that package. I like my holidays, which is normally what stops me taking permanent roles - to make up for the number of days that I have off work at the moment, the salary has to go up. Given that I like to have three months off a year, the salary gets pretty ridiculous.

----

If I was on your daily rate, then I'd ignore everything I've said and take the permie role.

[Old Greg]

Interesting. What would that package look like for you?

I am hoping:

£70k + 7k car allowance + up to 10% bonus + matched pension contribution up to 10% + assorted other stuff (life assurance etc.)

[utternutter]

a very nice permie opportunity

If I could find a decent enough offer,

Interesting. What would that package look like for you?

[TheFaQQer]

+1. Contracting used to stack up very nicely. It now stacks up less nicely and in the near future it won't stack up. Also (fingers crossed, because it might not come off) I have a very nice permie opportunity nearly in my grasp.

+1

If I could find a decent enough offer, I'd jump back in a shot.

Every so often, I go through the start of the interview phase, and a tasty contract appears, so I knock it on the head. But one of these days, it'll all come together at the same time.

[Old Greg]

I´m on the verge of giving up on contracting, I´ve thought about "battling" for a contract role in London but my feeling is even if you get one, in a year or two it won´t be any easier if you end up on the bench again. It doesn´t matter how much experience you get you still have to fight tooth and nail for any contract. Probably easier to jump on the permie "job mill" and take sickies when you need a day off.

+1. Contracting used to stack up very nicely. It now stacks up less nicely and in the near future it won't stack up. Also (fingers crossed, because it might not come off) I have a very nice permie opportunity nearly in my grasp.

[BlasterBates]

I´m on the verge of giving up on contracting, I´ve thought about "battling" for a contract role in London but my feeling is even if you get one, in a year or two it won´t be any easier if you end up on the bench again. It doesn´t matter how much experience you get you still have to fight tooth and nail for any contract. Probably easier to jump on the permie "job mill" and take sickies when you need a day off.

[yasockie]

Very interesting thread, as I am tempted by a similar package myself.
The calculators do not work for me as most years I bill for less than 200 days for various reasons.
If I consider that most of the days where I was not billing I could take paid holiday etc, if I also consider that for the role I will not need a place in London to stay and that all my travelling expenses will be paid for, it suddenly makes it quite interesting in terms of pure take-home money, the quality of life etc.
Worst case, I'll give it a go, fail miserably and go back to contracting, I guess?