Reply to: Been asked to 'take some leave'

[Grim Reaper]

I will have a look at the contract. I do not recall it mentioning hours or days of attendance. Besides already started looking and have an interview Tuesday.
Thanks for the reply.

[Wanderer]

Now the work has started to dry up I have been asked to consider taking some holiday, obviously with no pay.
it appears to me that they want a 'contractor on demand', who will bog off home at their convenience and come back when demand ramps up.

If you are contracted to deliver a fixed price deliverable and there is a lull in the project then that's fair enough. Alternatively, you may have a "zero hour" contract which means they are under no obligation to offer you any work at all but these situations would be pretty rare in my opinion.

As I understand it, they are obliged to pay me if I attend site, even if they have nothing to give me. If I do this, they may be forced to serve a weeks notice (this has not been mentioned), so I could keep things ticking along whilst looking.

I agree with that. If you are contracted to work an 8 hour day, 5 days a week for the duration of the contract and then they have to pay you regardless of if you have work to do. If they run out of work then they have to give notice and terminate the contract and pay you for the notice period even if you don't work it. I know that goes against the group think on this forum and it's probably going to get me shot by the IR35 karma police but that's pretty much how it works and indeed client's see it the same way.

The vast majority of contractors take on contracts expecting to work a full 5 day week and except for a few days in exceptional circumstances (Christmas shutdowns for example) they aren't going to tolerate being sent home without pay when there is no work to be done, we simply don't work that way. Clients understand that if they want a contractor working for them then they have to pay them for the duration of the contract otherwise the contractor is going to bugger off elsewhere or not be available to work when they want them.

What would your approach be ? Take time out through good will and keep things smooth or attend site, drink lots of tea whilst asking for more work ?

1. Do your best to drum up some other work with the client. Ask around and see if there is anything else you can work on.

2. Discuss a compromise agreement where you take a bit of time off (if that's what you want to do)

3. Look for a new contract.


I'd say do number 3 anyway but keep in touch with them for a bit of a sideline job. I can't be bothered contracting with clients who may or may not have any work for me to do leaving me twiddling my thumbs without pay but still expect me to be at their beck and call. Sod that, there are plenty of others out there who can keep me engaged for a full working week.

[TheFaQQer]

IR35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In September 2011 a Freedom of Information Request revealed that the number of cases reviewed had fallen from 158 (year ending April 2007) to 12 in year ending April 2010 and 23 in year ending April 2011. The same document also gives the "tax yield received for the requested years" as having fallen from £1,906,619 to £219,180. No details are given for the costs of the investigations or the costs of collecting the tax. It is not clear whether this figure relates to the revenue raised from investigations, or the total revenue from IR35. No figures were given for the cost of administrating the tax, or the cost of the investigations"

That was a few years ago, more chance of winning the lottery. Do some research before posting your nonsense.

Rather than pointing to Wikipedia, have you got anything from HMRC which says that IR35 isn't anything to worry about because they aren't bothering to investigate?

As for there being more chance of winning the lottery, do some basic calculations before posing your nonsense.

[BolshieBastard]

IR35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In September 2011 a Freedom of Information Request revealed that the number of cases reviewed had fallen from 158 (year ending April 2007) to 12 in year ending April 2010 and 23 in year ending April 2011. The same document also gives the "tax yield received for the requested years" as having fallen from £1,906,619 to £219,180. No details are given for the costs of the investigations or the costs of collecting the tax. It is not clear whether this figure relates to the revenue raised from investigations, or the total revenue from IR35. No figures were given for the cost of administrating the tax, or the cost of the investigations"

That was a few years ago, more chance of winning the lottery. Do some research before posting your nonsense.

Hahaha! Depending on out of date wiki to defend your position. Yeah, quote that to hmrc when the old brown envelop drops through your letterbox. Anyway, off topic!

[proggy]

Dont talk stupid. If you're the one staring down the barrel of an investigation, it wont matter if IR35 has taken 250m or only 10m, its your arse on the line.

The fact is, being told there's no work during the contract period ie MOO, is a massive indicator in anyone's fight against IR35 investigations.

If the OP is an ltd contractor, he should be aware of this fact. Clearly, he shouldnt just use this as the sole basis for his decision.

IR35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In September 2011 a Freedom of Information Request revealed that the number of cases reviewed had fallen from 158 (year ending April 2007) to 12 in year ending April 2010 and 23 in year ending April 2011. The same document also gives the "tax yield received for the requested years" as having fallen from £1,906,619 to £219,180. No details are given for the costs of the investigations or the costs of collecting the tax. It is not clear whether this figure relates to the revenue raised from investigations, or the total revenue from IR35. No figures were given for the cost of administrating the tax, or the cost of the investigations"

That was a few years ago, more chance of winning the lottery. Do some research before posting your nonsense.

[BolshieBastard]

If the OP is working through an umbrella he only needs to worry about the cash (or lack of it). If he's working as a Ltd, he needs to worry about the contract.

So yes, IR35 should be taken into consideration.

Exactly.

[BolshieBastard]

IR35 is a non issue, it has failed. It was meant to raise 250 million but instead it has raised 10 or so. The cases raised each year have dropped so almost a handful.

Dont talk stupid. If you're the one staring down the barrel of an investigation, it wont matter if IR35 has taken 250m or only 10m, its your arse on the line.

The fact is, being told there's no work during the contract period ie MOO, is a massive indicator in anyone's fight against IR35 investigations.

If the OP is an ltd contractor, he should be aware of this fact. Clearly, he shouldnt just use this as the sole basis for his decision.

[Grim Reaper]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have already started taking time out and now looking else where as you can't trust them. They have little idea of whats going on from a resource and demand perspective. As for my agency; they are only interested in signing new contracts.

The reality is that its an unfortunate position to be in and its time to move on....

[javadude]

I'd take the time off or see if I could get another short contract to tide me over.

[psychocandy]

Not cool but I guess they can do it. As previous poster says, it works both ways so your free to do something else and then decline to come back.

Current client does the few days things from time to time, especially around xmas. And they ALWAYS ask me when Im having two weeks off in the summer in a loaded question sort of way.

Does piss me off a bit because its penny pinching. If it was quiet then I could see their point but I'm up to my tits in work, working extra hours and they want me to take days off to save a few quid?

Then, they tend to moan afterwards that things are a little behind as if I'm going to work extra for free to catch up these lost days.... Ho Hum.

[kingcook]

Personally a few days wouldn't bother me.

If they were expecting more, i'd just get another contract ASAP. Then when they ring and say they have some work, say you haven't got the time.

It works both ways

[SueEllen]

As I understand it, they are obliged to pay me if I attend site, even if they have nothing to give me. If I do this, they may be forced to serve a weeks notice (this has not been mentioned), so I could keep things ticking along whilst looking.

No they are not obliged to pay you if you attend site as if there is no work to do there is no work to do whether you are on-site or not.

In fact if you turn up on-site they can and probably will tell you to go home again.

It happened on a project I was on to another contractor as they couldn't contact this person on their phone.

As the others said take the time off and see if you can find another contract.

[cojak]

I was just replying to BB, he suggested IR35 should be a factor in his decision, but it shouldn't be taken into consideration by the OP.

If the OP is working through an umbrella he only needs to worry about the cash (or lack of it). If he's working as a Ltd, he needs to worry about the contract.

So yes, IR35 should be taken into consideration.

[BlasterBates]

Take time off and look for a new contract, otherwise they´ll probably simply give you notice.

...enjoy the time off, do something nice...it´s summer

[proggy]

Off-topic proggy. We are speaking specifically rather than debating the general effectiveness of IR35.

I was just replying to BB, he suggested IR35 should be a factor in his decision, but it shouldn't be taken into consideration by the OP.