Reply to: Getting companies to sign timesheets.

[Safe Collections]

Just thought I would come on and update. Still can't get anywhere with this. Still butting against "We need a signed timesheet".

Anyone know if I can use the legal system in this instance? Something like a small claims thing?

A timesheet isn't the be all and end all. If you can prove you did the work, you should be able to make a claim.

Have you warned the umbrella you are considering legal action?

[MarkL75]

Just thought I would come on and update. Still can't get anywhere with this. Still butting against "We need a signed timesheet".

Anyone know if I can use the legal system in this instance? Something like a small claims thing?

[Safe Collections]

Everybody is hiding behind the timesheet issue here, using that as an excuse to make it your problem. Ultimately if you did the work, not being able to get a signed timesheet isn't reason enough not to pay you, opt out or not.

This is our thinking, it gives everyone a ready made excuse to avoid/delay payment.

As you are with an umbrella it should be a case of chasing them as they are (generally) legally responsible for the outstanding balance.

[VectraMan]

Seems to me the biggest problem you have here is your umbrella. You need them to act, as the contract is with them, and they probably won't. Plus if there is an issue over IP, who will end up owning it? It will be your employer - Parasol, not you.

Everybody is hiding behind the timesheet issue here, using that as an excuse to make it your problem. Ultimately if you did the work, not being able to get a signed timesheet isn't reason enough not to pay you, opt out or not.

I would send them a recorded delivery letter, demanding they either return signed timesheets or explain on what basis they're refusing to do so, with the appropriate threat of legal action and interest on the outstanding amount.

[MarkL75]

Does this mean the company was one of these start ups working from an old converted garage on a farm miles from anywhere? - there are quite a few around.

Bit late for you I know, but to be avoided at all costs IMHO. Given that it's a web site, what did the contract say about IP and copyright?

Funny enough they are based in one of the large metallic boxes with the full height roller doors, and now you mention it the 2 companies I have had problems with are both in those sort of buildings.

I checked and am definitely opt out with the umbrella company and the agency. Also the contract does raise an interesting point. It states that, on completion of work IP becomes the property of the end client. So if they claim to own the IP they are admitting that the work was complete. Otherwise they have to release the IP to me. I am going to send that onto the umbrella company and the agency dealing with it. Might just be an interpretation of the text, but it could be a club to beat them into talking to us with.

[TheFaQQer]

Since you are through an umbrella company, ask them whether they opted out of the agency regulations on your behalf first.

To opt out, you need to do it yourself and also the brolly needs to do it as well, before you have been introduced to the client.

I'd bet that didn't happen, so you need to them point out to the agency that you are not opted out of the regulations, so they need to pay you regardless of whether they get paid by the client.

[tractor]

I had considered that, but the 2 people I have spoke with seem sincere enough. They have said that they don't get paid until the timesheets are signed.



I considered camping on the doorstep, but want to make sure I have exhausted other options. I was working remotely and it is a bit of a trek to get out there.

The invoices get a bit complicated. Basically I am with an umbrella company, Parasol. They have invoiced to the agency in question. I don't know if the agency has invoiced across to the client. I doubt it as they are waiting for the timesheets to be signed.

I could understand if the end client had said outright that they aren't going to sign. They just won't answer emails, are busy when I or anyone else calls for them. They haven't said anything.

The reason I bring up the opt in/out thing is that I read I can prove the work has been done with opt in I can claim without the timesheets. For opt out I can't find a clear answer. The work, in this case a website, has been completed. They effectively took delivery of it, made a few changes and then nothing.

Does this mean the company was one of these start ups working from an old converted garage on a farm miles from anywhere? - there are quite a few around.

Bit late for you I know, but to be avoided at all costs IMHO. Given that it's a web site, what did the contract say about IP and copyright?

[cojak]

I considered camping on the doorstep, but want to make sure I have exhausted other options. I was working remotely and it is a bit of a trek to get out there.

The invoices get a bit complicated. Basically I am with an umbrella company, Parasol. They have invoiced to the agency in question. I don't know if the agency has invoiced across to the client. I doubt it as they are waiting for the timesheets to be signed.

I could understand if the end client had said outright that they aren't going to sign. They just won't answer emails, are busy when I or anyone else calls for them. They haven't said anything.

Then you're just going to have to get your boots on and make that trek.

And then quietly promise never to work for that client again.

[Andy Hallett]

We get these situations. 9 out of 10 times the client is trying to screw over agency, and therefore contractor depending on regs status.

[MarkL75]

If they haven't been getting annoyed as much as the OP has they might well have been paid and are going 'aw diddums' just to keep him quiet.

I had considered that, but the 2 people I have spoke with seem sincere enough. They have said that they don't get paid until the timesheets are signed.

Are you still on client site and not getting paid, or is this a previous engagement?

If you're still on site then you basically tell the client that you won't be tomorrow unless the timesheets get signed.

I considered camping on the doorstep, but want to make sure I have exhausted other options. I was working remotely and it is a bit of a trek to get out there.

The invoices get a bit complicated. Basically I am with an umbrella company, Parasol. They have invoiced to the agency in question. I don't know if the agency has invoiced across to the client. I doubt it as they are waiting for the timesheets to be signed.

I could understand if the end client had said outright that they aren't going to sign. They just won't answer emails, are busy when I or anyone else calls for them. They haven't said anything.

The reason I bring up the opt in/out thing is that I read I can prove the work has been done with opt in I can claim without the timesheets. For opt out I can't find a clear answer. The work, in this case a website, has been completed. They effectively took delivery of it, made a few changes and then nothing.

[TheFaQQer]

That means diddly squat and NLUK's post still applies.

If they haven't been getting annoyed as much as the OP has they might well have been paid and are going 'aw diddums' just to keep him quiet.

If I were the OP I would 'regrettfully' start dunning against the agent and see how fast their attitude changes...

Assuming that the contract has a standard disclaimer that they will only accept invoices once the client has signed the timesheet, is there even a debt at this point to be able to chase?

Has the OP invoiced yet, or are they waiting for a signed timesheet? I'd get the invoice in anyway, and then be prepared to argue it, but at the moment, there probably isn't even a debt to be able to chase.

[cojak]

The agency themselves have been very helpful

That means diddly squat and NLUK's post still applies.

If they haven't been getting annoyed as much as the OP has they might well have been paid and are going 'aw diddums' just to keep him quiet.

If I were the OP I would 'regrettfully' start dunning against the agent and see how fast their attitude changes...

[TheFaQQer]

As helpful as the agency have been, you need to get them to put pressure on the client. Failing that, turn up at the client site and refuse to leave until they are signed

[psychocandy]

Are you still on client site and not getting paid, or is this a previous engagement?

If you're still on site then you basically tell the client that you won't be tomorrow unless the timesheets get signed.

If you've now left then you need to ask the agency directly if they have been paid for work done. If they have then they should pay you irrespective of opt in / out. If they haven't, then start to pull together any other evidence you can to show that you did the work.

I've always thought that. If you cant even get client to sign then its gonna be a long hard road to get paid surely? Opt out makes no odds then.....

[psychocandy]

The fact the agency seems to not want to help here would indicate they have been paid. Ask them the question upfront, by mail or letter so you have the evidence. Have they been paid for your time and is it the agent that is refusing to pay you?

I would have thought if the client owed the agency money they would be all over it like a rash.

The agency themselves have been very helpful