Reply to: Short Term extension / cover

[psychocandy]

It's not about how many contracts you had. You can sound just as unprofessional in your first as you can in your last contract and all of them inbetween. You do have to expect it but it's always you and the same client. You might not hate them but you certainly don't respect them. You might think you cover it well on site but I will bet they have noticed.

Merely pointing out that you assume everyone else is a newbie who has no experience...

[psychocandy]

It's not about how many contracts you had. You can sound just as unprofessional in your first as you can in your last contract and all of them inbetween. You do have to expect it but it's always you and the same client. You might not hate them but you certainly don't respect them. You might think you cover it well on site but I will bet they have noticed.

But NLUK - how I deal with my work and professional life is nothing to do with what I might comment on a forum. Obviously, if I kicked off to them all the time, I wouldn't be still here....

For instance, you might moan about your Mrs to your mates in the pub. Doesn't mean you're going the say the same thing to her face and doesn't mean you hate her!

And also, and I'm sure others would agree, if you treated your client the way to treat people on this forum, you wouldn't last 5 minutes. I'm sure you don't though, and , like I've always said, in real life, I'm sure you're a nice guy really...

[northernladuk]

I agree that you can try it, but bear in mind how unlikely it is.

The best I've managed in the past was:
- client let me go at the end of the contract, so I let the rent run out on my flat
- client realised they needed me back for a month
- I said I could do it, but would want the difference paying between being in a hotel and what I paid in rent, to cover their management mistake
- four weeks later, they came crawling back and agreed but hated the "extortion" of having to pay for their mistake.

I wasn't after the whole hotel bill being paid, just the difference, and they still resented the arrangement, and made me feel as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit.

I was so annoyed with their attitude that I ended up billing them for the whole hotel bill and room service instead.

Can't argue with that. It might be unlikely but no reason not to give it a go if they really need you and you are adamant. To disregard it and just think the client is out to screw you is not the right approach.... even if they are.

[northernladuk]

Not wanting to get into a willy waving contest but remind me how long you've been contracting and how many contracts you've had?

I see others agree with me too. I wasnt being specific about my current client but most won't be keen to pay extra in 99% of cases I reckon. Sometimes even if the local manager wanted to they'd never get a perceived increase in budget past all the necessary red tape.

And BTW I don't hate my client at all - that comment was a bit harsh. They do business as they want, I do business as I want. Just because they annoy me sometimes doesnt mean I hate them. Tescos run out of cornflakes sometimes and even though it might be annoying I dont hate them!

The people I work with locally are great, the PM is a decent bloke, just some of the admin stuff gets tied up in large company red tape which is a bit annoying.

But has anyone got a client who they think is brilliant all the time after all? This is site for contractors not one for people to sing praises about their clients. You've got to expect some honest opinions and moaning.

It's not about how many contracts you had. You can sound just as unprofessional in your first as you can in your last contract and all of them inbetween. You do have to expect it but it's always you and the same client. You might not hate them but you certainly don't respect them. You might think you cover it well on site but I will bet they have noticed.

[TheFaQQer]

I don't completely agree. Maybe on the outset but I do believe it is open for discussion. This has happened on at least one of my last clients. If the client want him and it is under circumstances that don't suit him they should know they may have to negotiate.

I agree that you can try it, but bear in mind how unlikely it is.

The best I've managed in the past was:
- client let me go at the end of the contract, so I let the rent run out on my flat
- client realised they needed me back for a month
- I said I could do it, but would want the difference paying between being in a hotel and what I paid in rent, to cover their management mistake
- four weeks later, they came crawling back and agreed but hated the "extortion" of having to pay for their mistake.

I wasn't after the whole hotel bill being paid, just the difference, and they still resented the arrangement, and made me feel as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit.

I was so annoyed with their attitude that I ended up billing them for the whole hotel bill and room service instead.

[psychocandy]

Surely there must be some NLUK comment generator material here?

Timeless classics all of them.... :-)

[Ignis Fatuus]

You need to sack your client, get another gig and learn something about clients. Your time there is blinkering you to how other clients can work and how to negotiate with them. They don't hate you like you hate them and can be negotiated with. A new client might make you in to a contractor rather than a moaning employer hating permie. They your customer, a bit of respect wouldn't go a miss on that fact alone.

Upping the rate by a smallish amount to cover inconvenience and as a retainer to stop you leaving and taking a 6 monther at the same rate could make sense. At the end of the day though it is down to budget and the bean counters.

Propose it to them like a buiness with reasons why you want the rise though rather than just dictate what you want and that's that.

Surely there must be some NLUK comment generator material here?

[psychocandy]

You need to sack your client, get another gig and learn something about clients. Your time there is blinkering you to how other clients can work and how to negotiate with them. They don't hate you like you hate them and can be negotiated with. A new client might make you in to a contractor rather than a moaning employer hating permie. They your customer, a bit of respect wouldn't go a miss on that fact alone.

Upping the rate by a smallish amount to cover inconvenience and as a retainer to stop you leaving and taking a 6 monther at the same rate could make sense. At the end of the day though it is down to budget and the bean counters.

Propose it to them like a buiness with reasons why you want the rise though rather than just dictate what you want and that's that.

Not wanting to get into a willy waving contest but remind me how long you've been contracting and how many contracts you've had?

I see others agree with me too. I wasnt being specific about my current client but most won't be keen to pay extra in 99% of cases I reckon. Sometimes even if the local manager wanted to they'd never get a perceived increase in budget past all the necessary red tape.

And BTW I don't hate my client at all - that comment was a bit harsh. They do business as they want, I do business as I want. Just because they annoy me sometimes doesnt mean I hate them. Tescos run out of cornflakes sometimes and even though it might be annoying I dont hate them!

The people I work with locally are great, the PM is a decent bloke, just some of the admin stuff gets tied up in large company red tape which is a bit annoying.

But has anyone got a client who they think is brilliant all the time after all? This is site for contractors not one for people to sing praises about their clients. You've got to expect some honest opinions and moaning.

[Antman]

In my case I got a short extension recently because, the business had projects in the pipeline and were waiting on getting them signed off. They didn't want to lose the person with knowledge of the systems so I got an extension.

I can see the reason for asking for more because of the hassle of short contracts, but in my case it's difficult to ask for because I'm twiddling my thumbs (disguised as producing continuous business value).

[northernladuk]

This, exactly.

It's rare / exceptional for a client not to see it this way.

I don't completely agree. Maybe on the outset but I do believe it is open for discussion. This has happened on at least one of my last clients. If the client want him and it is under circumstances that don't suit him they should know they may have to negotiate.

[TheFaQQer]

LOL. Chances of client going for this? ;-)

They'll just want a bit of extra work at same price. Wont want to pay a premium for it because its 'short'. And will think you're blackmailing them if you want to charge extra.

This, exactly.

It's rare / exceptional for a client not to see it this way.

[northernladuk]

LOL. Chances of client going for this? ;-)

They'll just want a bit of extra work at same price. Wont want to pay a premium for it because its 'short'. And will think you're blackmailing them if you want to charge extra.

You need to sack your client, get another gig and learn something about clients. Your time there is blinkering you to how other clients can work and how to negotiate with them. They don't hate you like you hate them and can be negotiated with. A new client might make you in to a contractor rather than a moaning employer hating permie. They your customer, a bit of respect wouldn't go a miss on that fact alone.

Upping the rate by a smallish amount to cover inconvenience and as a retainer to stop you leaving and taking a 6 monther at the same rate could make sense. At the end of the day though it is down to budget and the bean counters.

Propose it to them like a buiness with reasons why you want the rise though rather than just dictate what you want and that's that.

[Scrag Meister]

Depends how likely the other projects coming off are.

Personally if its short term and nothing afterwards then I would be asking for some increase.

Also WQHS, Don't ask don't get.

[psychocandy]

LOL. Chances of client going for this? ;-)

They'll just want a bit of extra work at same price. Wont want to pay a premium for it because its 'short'. And will think you're blackmailing them if you want to charge extra.

[quackhandle]

You don't ask you don't get.

Just say you're in demand, but it's only 1-4 weeks extra, short gigs come with increase in daily rate - company policy and all that.

qh