Reply to: Hyphen / Spring (Adecco) Employed Consultants Model (ECM) big rip off ?

[Scruff]

NLUK

It was 14% less, on the Gross Rate that I would have earned as a Ltd Contractor. I did qualify for very generous overtime, too.

My net was averaging 65% of my Gross Salary, after deductions.

Ultimately, it was Manpower UK that I never fancied, based upon their inability to hold Annual Reviews less than 6 months after the anniversary dates, their inability to explain why I wasn't included in their Pension Fund and why it took 2 years 8 months before the Sharesave scheme started, when it was supposed to have started from the 2nd year anniversary.

All shirt and no trousers.

[northernladuk]

A permie salary at contractor rates (less 14% than I would have achieved then as Ltd.
33 days paid Annual Leave
14 days paid Sick Leave
Sharesave scheme
Pension Scheme
NO ADMIN

When you say less 14% achieved, is this in your pocket or gross? 14% less for all the other points below do seem like a pretty good deal. The salary increase isn't a problem either, my rate has gone down and back to the same in that period so can swing both ways. Last person I spoke to on these types of gigs were on permie pro-rata so much worse off compared to contracting.

[Scruff]

I took a role as an ECM with Manpower for nigh on 3 years. I left end Jan 2013 to go back to Ltd.

I came back to the company where Manpower had me shipped out to mid-August as a Ltd.

Benefits as ECM:
A permie salary at contractor rates (less 14% than I would have achieved then as Ltd.
33 days paid Annual Leave
14 days paid Sick Leave
Sharesave scheme
Pension Scheme
NO ADMIN

Negatives as ECM
No salary increases in the 3 years, even though I was classed a "Top-Performer". Their processes for review were deliberately obscure
Pension never materialised due to their deliberately obscure process to join

Having come back to ClientCo. as MyCo. I have managed to achieve an increase in rate previously unheard of. I have also managed to pay an Accountant circa £100 per month for an ancient spreadsheet based accounting system that fails Accounting 101.

It was very easy as an ECM - just pitch up and get paid, but I would not do it again. I realised that I am unemployable

[tpsman]

Adecco tried this at Bank of America a few years ago, especially at renewal point. We never knew of anyone taking them up on their kind offer. We suspected they told the client they turned the extension down.

I'll probably be posting back here in 6 months complaining, but **** it - I'm just going to give it a go anyway.

[Damon]

Adecco tried this at Bank of America a few years ago, especially at renewal point. We never knew of anyone taking them up on their kind offer. We suspected they told the client they turned the extension down.

[northernladuk]

Ha! If I didn't have that optimism, I wouldn't be able to go contracting!

But blind optimism isn't healthy. Is this role with Barclays? They used these people when I was there. Still didn't stop them walking every contractor on site a few months after a 10% cut. No one is too valuable.

[tpsman]

Nice to see your optimism. To quote General Melchett:

Ha! If I didn't have that optimism, I wouldn't be able to go contracting!

[DirtyDog]

Daily rate. The contractors in my industry have said it's a very good rate. I'm aware they'll try to cut my rate after 6 months, and I'm fine with that (I'll be too valuable to cut at that point, plus I have another arrangement I can easily jump to any time over the next couple of years).

Nice to see your optimism. To quote General Melchett:

That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

[northernladuk]

I've handed in my notice for my permie job, and am ready to go contracting.

I've just realised that the contract I'm about to be offered is on the Fixed Rate Card system from hyphen. I've got plenty of other offers, but the most appealing one was from hyphen. It's a very good rate, but I'm yet to see the contract. Any info on what to expect?

Yep, to be an employee again.....

[tpsman]

Do you mean a pro rata annual salary or a daily rate?

Daily rate. The contractors in my industry have said it's a very good rate. I'm aware they'll try to cut my rate after 6 months, and I'm fine with that (I'll be too valuable to cut at that point, plus I have another arrangement I can easily jump to any time over the next couple of years).

[cojak]

I've handed in my notice for my permie job, and am ready to go contracting.

I've just realised that the contract I'm about to be offered is on the Fixed Rate Card system from hyphen. I've got plenty of other offers, but the most appealing one was from hyphen. It's a very good rate, but I'm yet to see the contract. Any info on what to expect?

Do you mean a pro rata annual salary or a daily rate?

[tpsman]

Yes, its the internet, which means even people like you are allowed to post.

Certainly in the organisations I have worked in in recent years it is fair to say that the lower the rate, the lower the standard, with the ECM model pulling in lower quality people, and quite a few who wants visas renewing and will work for lower wages to get it.

Of course there will always be people who choose certain paths for personal reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, if you are looking at averages, and from experience, you will struggle to convince me that a EC on £45k is as good as a Ltd Co. contractor on £500/day.

I've handed in my notice for my permie job, and am ready to go contracting.

I've just realised that the contract I'm about to be offered is on the Fixed Rate Card system from hyphen. I've got plenty of other offers, but the most appealing one was from hyphen. It's a very good rate, but I'm yet to see the contract. Any info on what to expect?

[GB9]

Proof? I take it you can back this up? I'll take a wild stab in the dark here and suggest you probably can't.

There are short term benefits for some by this model. Not least the employee themselves. In areas where the contracting market is flooded, or where local contracting requirements go through quieter periods. Pros and cons for both models. Nothing to stop a savvy individual using this route for a year or so.

And of course, having worked in the field I do for a good twenty years or thereabouts, rest assured, the bottom of the barrel's not restricted to the EC end of the market, but has good coverage across contracting and employed as well.

So no, bottom of the barrel's wide of the mark. Then again, this is the internet, uninformed opinion is the norm.

Yes, its the internet, which means even people like you are allowed to post.

Certainly in the organisations I have worked in in recent years it is fair to say that the lower the rate, the lower the standard, with the ECM model pulling in lower quality people, and quite a few who wants visas renewing and will work for lower wages to get it.

Of course there will always be people who choose certain paths for personal reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, if you are looking at averages, and from experience, you will struggle to convince me that a EC on £45k is as good as a Ltd Co. contractor on £500/day.

[Edinburgh BA]

It also probably applies to a small number of clients too. Who in their right mind would pay £2K/day for a "contractor", when they can get one for £500/day?

It's common for those companies who decide they want to follow a certain resourcing model.

Pretty much any firm that hires one of the big global consultancies, or any company that wants to use a third party resourcer to manage their recruitment can expect to pay through the nose for it. I'm less than convinced that it brings the benefits they think it does, but if it makes the bottom line look good...

The downside however is when there's some belt-tightening to be done, then the experience walks out the door as the resourcing model is changed, or the contract is pulled. Seen it several times in recent years.

[Mephisto]

I have an awful suspicion that there are a lot A LOT of good contractors taking these roles to 'ride the storm' waiting for the next big ticket to come along. They'll put on their CV that they were consulting for a consultancy, lie about their rate of pay etc. (LTD proof of trading could be sticky but not a major issue) and do the necessary (in their eyes) to keep their career alive.

I think the Contractor market is so saturated with allsorts from competent contractors to bobs and wannabees that it can be tough for anyone half good (not the best from CUK of course) to become better. No doubt you'd be none the wiser if the contracts, rates and head hunting continues but I fear the reality is pretty grim seeing as so many roles generate hundreds of CVs per position advertised