BOOMED (almost) - advice needed.

[Wanderer]

My reluctance to accept self billing is that unless I'm wrong, it's my companies responsibility to ensure all figures, ie VAT are correctly calculated and applied.

Yes, that is correct. It puts the burden back on you to make sure they pay the correct amount and they don't always get it right. Without self billing, you raise an invoice it's up to them to check that it's correct (though to be fair, the contractor doesn't always get it right either).

When the agency is using self billing, I just keep a spreadsheet showing each weekly timesheet, the date submitted and the amount I expected to be paid. This was reconciled against the self billing invoice when it arrived. To be honest, it wasn't that much extra admin.

It's posited it will be 30 days. That however depends upon when the agency generate the self billing invoices.

I've wondered about this too. Could the agency wait (say) 60 days then generate an invoice and pay it on 30 day terms?

When I've done self billing, the agency generated an invoice a few days before paying my company. Technically their payments were made within 3 days of the invoice date, though the invoice wasn't raised until 25 days after the work was completed and a timesheet submitted.

It also raises the question of being able to invoice the agency when you have no signed timesheet or to invoice the agency for penalties and interest for late payment. How would that sit with self billing? I don't know.....

[7specialgems]

I have never had a contract that has the self-billing item as a feature of it.

Agencies I have worked with in the past have instead insisted on me signing a form that allows them the option of managing my invoices on my behalf and confirming that I will not send in invoices.

I never sign that form - I want to know exactly what date the invoice went in, the tax date on it and (in conjunction with the clause for payment timescales in my contract) what date the payment is due by (first late date -1).

For that comfort, I submit my own invoices.

Additionally (and this is a personal preference and opinion) I like all my invoices to look the same (style, company logo etc). If I got picked up for IR35 and I had a different Invoice style per client, I would worry that this would be construed as a weak indicator that I am inside IR35.

If my main line is a six month contract and I have other evening/weekend engagements on the side of that, I like the idea of being able to point to my regular invoices for that six month contract in the context of all the other ones and saying "look its just another business engagement, here are some other ones".

[ratewhore]

I have always avoided sell billing. I raise my own with the payment terms clearly stated on them.

Not a problem now agents are out of the equation. I have to agree with perplexed, a healthy cynicism is a good thing when it comes to dealing with them...

[SarahL2012]

I had a problem with self billing on the first set of timesheets that I sent through to current agency. My client is not someone who will go on-line to approve timesheets, so after chasing him around for a few days I finally got him to sign paper versions (8 weeks worth because he isn't based near me!) that went off to the agency - with a copy of my invoice.

There was absolutely no attempt to agree the payment they then made to me with the invoice that I sent them. They missed off the VAT (someone had forgotten to tick the right box) and even when that was sorted I was still £50 lower than expecting. They did pay the £50, but I never got an answer as to what went wrong.

To be fair, last month's seemed to go through OK but I don't see why they can't operate a normal accounts payable team like every other business does!

[Scrag Meister]

I've been self-billed on half my contracts, it works fine, and saves you effort raising invoices etc.

Currently I am raising invoices, but wouldn't be afraid of self -billing if it came up again.

[BolshieBastard]

Apologies for tardiness of reply.

Not everyone has been as lucky as you with regards to agencies, I've developed a healthy cynicism, if things go well it's a bonus.

Contract issues other than this are resolved, their standpoint appears to be that because they provide self-billing I have to accept it. Which I'd assume is a flawed view.

May well bite the bullet on this since it's not a long term contract, look around for other things around the end of the contract.

No problems. Perhaps its because I have contracts professionally reviewed by B&C that I've had few issues?

I've had more hassle with agencies who don't use SB than those who do.

SB doesn't bind you to any other clause, you have to negotiate those bits out.

[perplexed]

No it doesnt.

I've used SB on numerous contracts and never had a problem with it or payments being delayed..

Apologies for tardiness of reply.

Not everyone has been as lucky as you with regards to agencies, I've developed a healthy cynicism, if things go well it's a bonus.

Contract issues other than this are resolved, their standpoint appears to be that because they provide self-billing I have to accept it. Which I'd assume is a flawed view.

May well bite the bullet on this since it's not a long term contract, look around for other things around the end of the contract.

[BolshieBastard]

Yes, read about creating out invoices without issuing them and reconciling that way. It of course relies upon the agency being correct in what they invoice for... keeping on their backs in case of f*** ups can naturally be a pain.

The greater concern would be that it gives the agency the ability to delay payments even further for example if they batch up timesheets and self-bill end of the month. Being potentially "on the hook" for 60 days is something I'm not prepared to do.

Given from the penalty for late payment clause I editted into the op, seems agency want to pay less than the legal figure on late payments so trusting for self billing, eh.... I've wised up a lot in my career.

No it doesnt.

I've used SB on numerous contracts and never had a problem with it or payments being delayed..

[perplexed]

Yes, read about creating out invoices without issuing them and reconciling that way. It of course relies upon the agency being correct in what they invoice for... keeping on their backs in case of f*** ups can naturally be a pain.

The greater concern would be that it gives the agency the ability to delay payments even further for example if they batch up timesheets and self-bill end of the month. Being potentially "on the hook" for 60 days is something I'm not prepared to do.

Given from the penalty for late payment clause I editted into the op, seems agency want to pay less than the legal figure on late payments so trusting for self billing, eh.... I've wised up a lot in my career.

[cojak]

BOOMED (almost) - advice needed.

Regarding self-billing, I don't have a problem with it. Create your own invoices to keep your accounting in place but don't send them out, then reconcile the agency's invoice with your own.

(You need to keep their invoices for HMRC purposes, but that's no big deal.)

[northernladuk]

self billing site:forums.contractoruk.com - Google Search

[perplexed]

Hi, got a role with an end client that is decent for the CV

Contract arrived today for a start date of Monday, but there are a few issues with it that I thought I'd float by people here to confirm I wasn't making an arse of myself over.

Payment terms clauses specify that my company will accept self billing as being used. Never used it before and frankly, I'm not a fan of it. The portal my accountancy provides is damned simple to use re invoice generation and I'd far prefer to continue using that system. As timesheets need to be submitted to the agency, there's no impact from my end by generating invoices - after all, unless I'm mistaken I'd either need to generate dummy invoices for my accounts linked to the sell billing versions or register payments as sales attaching the self billing invoices.

My reluctance to accept self billing is that unless I'm wrong, it's my companies responsibility to ensure all figures, ie VAT are correctly calculated and applied. Self billing thus takes that out of my control - so if there are any mistakes, my company thus has to spend time and effort correcting it.

The contract clauses are also (I suspect deliberately) vague. It's posited it will be 30 days. That however depends upon when the agency generate the self billing invoices. If they stack timesheets up monthly, then it could be 60 days before payment which my company finds unacceptable.

So I'm thus going to push for changes to the process before accepting the contract - namely tightening up the clauses to ensure my company is responsible for generating invoices and that the timeframe for payment by the agency starts upon receipt of the invoices, my intention being to invoice weekly rather than monthly.

EDIT: Another issue is interest charged on late payments. The contract clause refers to Barclays Bank base rate + 3%. Having dealt with a late payer a long time ago, the figure of reference rate plus 8% seems to spring to mind. Hence my company will push for the latter to apply.

Any advice as to my companies stance will be gratefully accepted. Any abuse too. It's often better to be hated and mocked than ignored...