Reply to: The HAYS contract PSCToA1011

[bobspud]

Final post on this subject.

The head of the compliance team at Hays basically said we are not touching the contract so you will just have to sign it as is.

So I laughed and walked away.

If you are working on a hays corporate contract with the same name as the one on this post I would suggest its time to make other arrangements rather than thinking that you are outside IR35.

The contract has
A mutuality of obligation
No right of substitution
A clause to allow the contractor to be controlled by the end client.

[bobspud]

Just to keep those updated that wanted to hear: I got a call from my mate inside the client this morning I explained what the agency had done so far and he was less than happy. He has passed my side of the story to resourcing and the manager in question so that he understands what has happened.

Funnily enough there was also an email through from Hays promising to sort this out today I wonder who changed their minds for them?

[bobspud]

Not in banking, but yes your one size fits all analogy is very much what they are about.

I pointed out that I'm not a secretary, but a business, the agent really hadn't thought about it that hard. I really am struggling to think why I would bother getting the contract changed. It's clear that this contract as is reflects the true relationship that the agency have with the client so I would expect HMRC to roll over the changes like a Blitzkrieg

[Emigre]

I don't know where you work BS but one of the problems with Hays is that a number of years ago they bid to take recruitment inhouse at a whole range of City institutions on a stupidly low fee structure. Many banks agreed and have been unwinding their arrangements ever since.

What looked too good... The Hays model was one cap fits all. No resource for anything that varied from that. I was at one bank through a virtual consultancy which we got on the PSL and every year Hays tried to persuade the client that we were unusual (maybe true of course!) and should be through them. They even sent us contracts to sign which were shocking.

Hays has been on my blacklist ever since.

[kingcook]

They came back this morning, it would seem that they have fallen into the situation that they are in. I offered the move my rate to accommodate the additional costs they didn't seem very keen on that. However they have suggested that I moan at customer support to see what they can do. I was in London for a couple interviews so I told them I would think about the matter and come back to them. But in all honesty I think that I have less than 3% chance of starting this role...

Who TF are these people? Are they running a recruitment business or what?!

[bobspud]

They came back this morning, it would seem that they have fallen into the situation that they are in. I offered the move my rate to accommodate the additional costs they didn't seem very keen on that. However they have suggested that I moan at customer support to see what they can do. I was in London for a couple interviews so I told them I would think about the matter and come back to them. But in all honesty I think that I have less than 3% chance of starting this role...

[smatty]

A few years back B&C reviewed a Hays contract for me and negotiated on my behalf. Hays agreed to having some contract clauses clarified on the schedule. Not sure if it was the same one you mention.

I had a few problems with their front end support team but managed to get a contact higher up who was very helpful so overall wasn't too bad. They paid quickly but anything out of the ordinary was painful to sort out. Seems to be a similar story at most big agencies.

[quackhandle]

I've been through this hassle, I got arsey (in a professional business type capacity) with them and like other posters have suggested, got the client involved. They backed down, and upon QDOS recommendations, had various wording changed, however by the time the revised contract came through I'd moved onto another gig.

qh

[bobspud]

Hope HMRC target Hays contractors for some easy IR35 money first then.

Don't get me wrong I really don't wish harm to Hays or anyone that is in business with them.

But I want the client to know that it was Hays that caused me to flounce, because I am sure that's not the story they will have told the client.

In the end they have done me a favour because even if the contract was changed I think that the working practices might have been a little too worrying. (Supporting multiple pre sales streams with solution designs, and no project deliverables to assign the contract to... )

[wurzel]

Thanks for the heads up Bob. Hays will duly be added to my agency blacklist.

[northernladuk]

Hope HMRC target Hays contractors for some easy IR35 money first then.

[bobspud]

Most contractor I meet haven't got a clue, and what's more annoying have no desire to find out.

And those are the types that Hays are targeting I think.

[No2politics]

The HAYS contract PSCToA1011

Note to self: do not apply for gigs via Hays if I have a choice of agency

Plus one.

I know someone at current client who has an awful substitution clause. I think hays has to provide the sub, not his limited company! Awful

Fortunately I have a different agency, and have a confirmation of arrangements stating they would accept my two subs, and have shown them their cv's.

Most contractor I meet haven't got a clue, and what's more annoying have no desire to find out.

[Antman]

I (and I'm sure many others) would love to hear how it pans out.

[bobspud]

The agent just went completely dead on this, and now does not return calls or emails. So I have sent one last email and walked away...

What they did not realise is that I am in contract with the guy that the chief executive uses to sort out really big problems. The nuclear ones where companies start sending lawyers in to sue. So I copied everything I have on the subject directly to him and said what a shame it was that I could not come and work with them and what a shower the agent had been in the matter.