Reply to: Need to enter contracting world...

[northernladuk]

Yes, I can understand how an employer would feel. And yes it would be unfair.... If someone leaves straight away then its uncool.

But to tie someone in to not leaving employment surely because they cant afford to cough up for the training is surely infringing on their rights to choose employment.

Look at it another way. Employer gets sniff that people are leaving. Tells employee hes going on course. Employee doesnt really want to go. Now he possibly cant leave company because employer knows he aint got the wonga to pay the course fee back.

Money well spent for employer....

You are looking at it all the wrong way, the same with the xmas thread. You just sound like a pissed of permie in both threads. You gotta look at the bigger picture. I can't believe for one minute your situation would happen, employers don't tend to be devious enough to lock an employee in just to stop them leaving. You are in business, you gotta have a better business head on than that.

Look at it another way, large employer, his staff are his assets and he wants to grow those assets by investing time and money in to them so they can do more for the business. He spends 1000's training them on something so they can do the work and he can make more money. All part of yearly reviews and career plans with employees so they should be happy, stay and make him money. Some mercenary types take the training and just go looking for the money, fair enough, if that is the case then it doesn't really matter about paying for the course, it was a good investment, and the employer hasn't lost the money for his course.

Remember, as with the xmas one. Every employer is differently, they handle things differently and do it for different reasons. They might have been burnt in the past, limited budget and so on. By just tarring them all with the same brush saying you don't understand make you just sound like a pissed off permie that can't see the wood for the trees.

[captainham]

Look at it another way. Employer gets sniff that people are leaving. Tells employee hes going on course. Employee doesnt really want to go. Now he possibly cant leave company because employer knows he aint got the wonga to pay the course fee back.

You can't be forced to sign it.

If you're planning to leave anyway then so what if you refuse?

If you're planning to stay but don't like the sound of that particular course, then you sit down with the boss and have a sensible discussion about your future direction at the company.

I don't see what the big deal is?

[psychocandy]

Yes, I can understand how an employer would feel. And yes it would be unfair.... If someone leaves straight away then its uncool.

But to tie someone in to not leaving employment surely because they cant afford to cough up for the training is surely infringing on their rights to choose employment.

Look at it another way. Employer gets sniff that people are leaving. Tells employee hes going on course. Employee doesnt really want to go. Now he possibly cant leave company because employer knows he aint got the wonga to pay the course fee back.

Money well spent for employer....

[eek]

Never agreed with this crap.

If employer wants me to go on training then pay for it. If I leave before it suits them - hard luck its a risk you take.

What do you do if you're looking for another job and employer tries this? In effect, you'd have to own up that you're looking for another job.

My rule for this is simple. If its something only that company uses then its fair that they train you up at our cost.

If it improves your marketability elsewhere then you can either agree to go on the course with a payback clause or they'll send someone else instead of you.

[northernladuk]

So if you owned your own small-but-expanding company, with staff on the payroll, you'd be happy to train up, say, an accountant so you can bring the books in-house, only to see them chuff off at the end of training and leave you out of pocket? I doubt it.

I'd still be peeved if I was a boss at a mega-co and this happened, but the small-co analogy is more apt I feel.

Would like to see PC's first post have he sent one of his staff on a PRINCE2 course and they left to a better paid PM job based on that training alone.....

[captainham]

Never agreed with this crap.

If employer wants me to go on training then pay for it. If I leave before it suits them - hard luck its a risk you take.

What do you do if you're looking for another job and employer tries this? In effect, you'd have to own up that you're looking for another job.

So if you owned your own small-but-expanding company, with staff on the payroll, you'd be happy to train up, say, an accountant so you can bring the books in-house, only to see them chuff off at the end of training and leave you out of pocket? I doubt it.

I'd still be peeved if I was a boss at a mega-co and this happened, but the small-co analogy is more apt I feel.

[jmo21]

Never agreed with this crap.

If employer wants me to go on training then pay for it. If I leave before it suits them - hard luck its a risk you take.

What do you do if you're looking for another job and employer tries this? In effect, you'd have to own up that you're looking for another job.

It's an interesting point, and that would be a painful conversation.

I can see why a company wouldn't want to train you up only to watch you leave weeks later though.

[northernladuk]

Never agreed with this crap.

If employer wants me to go on training then pay for it. If I leave before it suits them - hard luck its a risk you take.

What do you do if you're looking for another job and employer tries this? In effect, you'd have to own up that you're looking for another job.

You don't seem very good at understanding employers do you......

[psychocandy]

Never agreed with this crap.

If employer wants me to go on training then pay for it. If I leave before it suits them - hard luck its a risk you take.

What do you do if you're looking for another job and employer tries this? In effect, you'd have to own up that you're looking for another job.

[northernladuk]

A lot of places may ask you to sign something before paying for training, such as "If you leave within 12 months of the training, you need to repay the costs". Depends on what OP has agreed, but he would have needed to have signed something to be affected by this though.

Indeed and the smaller companies are more likely to do this. I had to sign one when I was permie and started and Open University MA. Left within the 12 month cooling down period to go contracting and had to pay £3500 back to the company. In the greater scheme of things it didn't really matter, MA more than paid for itself and I made that money back in contracting the rest of the 12 months.

[tparnell]

How much do you earn now?

[captainham]

Slightly OT but the OP mentioned having to pay back training costs.

Is this legally enforceable? Surely its a companies decision to send you on training or not and a risk if you leave? Surely they cant hold you to ransom for years over training costs....

What if you were thinking of looking for another job but then current employer wants to send you on training course? What do you do?

A lot of places may ask you to sign something before paying for training, such as "If you leave within 12 months of the training, you need to repay the costs". Depends on what OP has agreed, but he would have needed to have signed something to be affected by this though.

[psychocandy]

Slightly OT but the OP mentioned having to pay back training costs.

Is this legally enforceable? Surely its a companies decision to send you on training or not and a risk if you leave? Surely they cant hold you to ransom for years over training costs....

What if you were thinking of looking for another job but then current employer wants to send you on training course? What do you do?

[psychocandy]

What TOMTOM said...

Generally, employers are not going to say OK you can finish friday as a permie and start monday as a contractor just because you want to.

[tomtomagain]

That is something I am aware of...

So if you want to become a contractor why don't you simply become a contractor?

Look for contracts on Jobserve, land one, resign, work out your notice period and then start the contract at your first client.

OR

Resign, look for contracts on Jobserver, land one and then start the contract at your first client.

Don't think about it too much. Either you are prepared to take the risk to take the extra reward or you aren't.