Reply to: SalesForce.com

[ChimpMaster]

BUMP. What happened? I have read all of this old thread and want to know the outcome haha

I was very tempted to take the role. The package was pretty good and full training would have been provided on SF products. However, I was put off by the interview process which involved 4 telephone interviews (from HR through Architect and up to VP), followed by a one day session where I would have had to spend time learning some part of the product, partially building a solution and presenting it to interviewers. I just did not have time to follow that last bit through and I thought it a bit of a cheek for SF to expect so much when I didn't know the product.

Instead, I chose to stay in my contract, where I negotiated my rate up 30% and will ride this role out for the next few months. What happens next is anyone's guess, but I'm not too worried.

On a related note, I have just billed my highest grossing week ever!

[Contractbound]

!

BUMP. What happened? I have read all of this old thread and want to know the outcome haha

[MarillionFan]

Interesting. In my inbox from LinkedIn is a piece about Salesforces 3rd quarter revenue of $584 aiming at $3b for the year with a year on year of 36%!

Present clientco is chasing hard. I cannot reveal numbers but for now if we could hit $584 for a year we'd be over the moon. Maybe next year for that goal.

[AussieDigger]

It was experience shared with me from someone who went through it. Hence i avoided it when I was looking at such roles.

Each person can make up their own mind for anything really. Certainly sounds like you are getting quite a few interviews that other people don't get, which means you'll probably get a fairer shake given your lack of SF experience. Good luck if you do. LIke any role with travel, you'll have your pound of flesh taken out of you. Not sure i'd give up a £200k role for one at SF though.

This is certainly a new thing too :-

They are not concerned at whether the candidate has SF skills because there is an 8 week onboarding process.

Sure seems like a very different hiring process. Hopefully its fairer.

[AussieDigger]

Hi AD

That's quite a bit of frustration there, considering you haven't been through the interview process yourself. Your friend must have been severely livid to have rubbed off on you this much!

SFDC are recruiting quite openly at the moment, but although technical skillset is clearly important, the overall demeanour and ability as a consultant is worth as much if not more. They are not concerned at whether the candidate has SF skills because there is an 8 week onboarding process.

I must agree in that the interview process is slow and sometimes can feel ineffective. The initial call with internal recruiters was informative and positive, but the subsequent tech call didn't push me enough and didn't tell me if any specific skills would be required (I'm not OO/Java at all so this concerns me).The Director call was interesting and we spoke honestly about amount of travel needed in the job and type of roles etc, but I still am not sure as to what the role might involve.

The next stage is a call with the VP. And then perhaps a panel interview or a presentation.

At no stage have I sensed that I will have to learn the product for weeks on end on my own, so I have no idea where your friend got this idea from. They are completely aware that I am not SF skilled and have confirmed that this is OK.

I'm not really sure where this is going yet. I am excited by the company and the product, but personally this job might have come up a year too early for me. My big dliemma is giving up a guaranteed year of £200k income (max 12 months though, then I'm out of work) where I get to work at home 50% of the time and dictate most of my own terms, against a salary of say £80k plus benefits but having to travel away from home - the iternant lifestyle is the hard part for me, because I have a young family.

It was experience shared with me from someone who went through it. Hence i avoided it when I was looking at such roles.

Each person can make up their own mind for anything really. Certainly sounds like you are getting quite a few interviews that other people don't get, which means you'll probably get a fairer shake given your lack of SF experience. Good luck if you do. LIke any role with travel, you'll have your pound of flesh taken out of you. Not sure i'd give up a £200k role for one at SF though.

[ChimpMaster]

Hi AD

That's quite a bit of frustration there, considering you haven't been through the interview process yourself. Your friend must have been severely livid to have rubbed off on you this much!

SFDC are recruiting quite openly at the moment, but although technical skillset is clearly important, the overall demeanour and ability as a consultant is worth as much if not more. They are not concerned at whether the candidate has SF skills because there is an 8 week onboarding process.

I must agree in that the interview process is slow and sometimes can feel ineffective. The initial call with internal recruiters was informative and positive, but the subsequent tech call didn't push me enough and didn't tell me if any specific skills would be required (I'm not OO/Java at all so this concerns me).The Director call was interesting and we spoke honestly about amount of travel needed in the job and type of roles etc, but I still am not sure as to what the role might involve.

The next stage is a call with the VP. And then perhaps a panel interview or a presentation.

At no stage have I sensed that I will have to learn the product for weeks on end on my own, so I have no idea where your friend got this idea from. They are completely aware that I am not SF skilled and have confirmed that this is OK.

I'm not really sure where this is going yet. I am excited by the company and the product, but personally this job might have come up a year too early for me. My big dliemma is giving up a guaranteed year of £200k income (max 12 months though, then I'm out of work) where I get to work at home 50% of the time and dictate most of my own terms, against a salary of say £80k plus benefits but having to travel away from home - the itinerant lifestyle is the hard part for me, because I have a young family.

[AussieDigger]

I take it you don't like them.

Not at all. Love their products - fantastic. All things deserve a balanced viewpoint. Haven't heart glowing reviews on the hiring process, so thankful I didn't go through it myself !

[eek]

Word of advice - if SF UK approach you for a permie role, don't for a second assume they will REALLY want you. What the REALLY want is for you to spend weeks of your own time trying to learn their products, do a dog and pony show for them (assuming they stay awake!) and then see how you go. All very flattering to be approached but its really a numbers game to see how many people they can get in and how many stick.

Your best bet is with an independent consultancy rather than the vendor.

Besides all that, you will have to front all your own travel expenses and won't get them all back.

All up, its a time wasting experience. I'd do something else.

I'd got with someone else.

It is scatter-gun. Trust me. Was almost in the line of fire myself until I was warned off by someone who got burned.

Yeah, this definitely isn't true - "IMO they don't scattergun, they know you fit before you even go to interview. "

Its not enough. SF UK want a (quote) 'turnkey salesforce consultant' every time. That means unless you wow with your salesforce product knowledge, you've bugger all chance of getting the gig. No matter how much you prep for it. Time wasting.

How nice it must be for them to have given you so many interviews.

For some, they give an initial 'chat' interview and then mistakenly skip the tech interviews and then ask you to spend weeks prepping for a 'panel interview'. Then, when they realise you don't have any SF knowledge (because its all new to you and you've only read about it), they then tell you 'no thanks'. When you query why, they say this info should have come out in the tech interview. Huh ? But you didn't offer one. Reply "Oh, yes we did and you turned it down". "Who, from your HR person ? No way, they didn't offer it and if they had it would have been taken up.". Bottom line, sloppy recruiting practices and a wasted time and effort going through weeks of prep to present to them only to find they didn't have their ducks lined up. Would you really want to work for an organisation that falsely accuses you of lying when they invited you to interview rather than you applying ? I'd think not.

I take it you don't like them.

[AussieDigger]

Update: I was trying to delay this a little by not sending my CV in but the (very pleasant) lady at SalesForce called me today and we had quite a lengthy discussion about the role on offer. Seems interesting I must admit, and the package on offer is pretty decent for a permie role. Best of all is the training they give in SalesForce products, along with shadowing to get new guys up to speed.

The main problem for me is that it is a consultancy role and so will involve travelling - mostly UK based but possibly Europe too.

The was some discussion around me being a contractor, which she wasn't aware of, but it didn't seem to be much of a problem for her. It might be for the hiring managers though... we'll have to wait and see.

Next step is another telephone 'chat' with a hiring manager, and then a call with an architect who will speak tech to me (no idea what though, and hopefully nothing to do with Saas!), followed by a face-to-face and then finally I will have to give a presentation! Seriously I'm not sure I can handle all of this (for half the money I'm on now (actually a third after tax )) ... but I'll go along for the ride

In the meantime, I'm gonna keep on billing....

Will keep you up to date

How nice it must be for them to have given you so many interviews.

For some, they give an initial 'chat' interview and then mistakenly skip the tech interviews and then ask you to spend weeks prepping for a 'panel interview'. Then, when they realise you don't have any SF knowledge (because its all new to you and you've only read about it), they then tell you 'no thanks'. When you query why, they say this info should have come out in the tech interview. Huh ? But you didn't offer one. Reply "Oh, yes we did and you turned it down". "Who, from your HR person ? No way, they didn't offer it and if they had it would have been taken up.". Bottom line, sloppy recruiting practices and a wasted time and effort going through weeks of prep to present to them only to find they didn't have their ducks lined up. Would you really want to work for an organisation that falsely accuses you of lying when they invited you to interview rather than you applying ? I'd think not.

[AussieDigger]

To be honest your knowledge above and a read through of their marketing speak must be enough. The actual method of multi-tenancy will differ from system to system and company to company so I doubt they'll want you to know the real specifics.

Its not enough. SF UK want a (quote) 'turnkey salesforce consultant' every time. That means unless you wow with your salesforce product knowledge, you've bugger all chance of getting the gig. No matter how much you prep for it. Time wasting.

[AussieDigger]

They are CRM mate, I'd guess with your skillset they are looking at you help them cater the product to the customer. (wild guess tho!)

IMO they don't scattergun, they know you fit before you even go to interview.

They'll give you a pie chart on your induction day and the "company values" will match your personal ones, betcha!

It's perhaps the new wave for you to ride too, they are a very strong company and don't seem too harmed by the recession either.

Salesforce.com Inc Common Stock Share Price Chart | CRM - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Finance

Yeah, this definitely isn't true - "IMO they don't scattergun, they know you fit before you even go to interview. "

[AussieDigger]

Thanks Scoobos, for me the research starts now. I don't even know what the product does or what skills they see as important- for example I don't do Java or any low level coding, I'm more of a solutions architect, config expert and all-round nice guy

It's flattering to have been approached directly but that in itself doesn't mean much; it might just be a scatter-gun approach from the (internal) recruiters at SalesForce.

I have a real tough decision: I can contract where I am now for the next 6 months, and very possibly for 12 months (I can see the way this project is going), which would put £80k (or £160k if 12 months) into my Ltd. If I go permie it would probably be something like a £70k salary. Big difference!

It is scatter-gun. Trust me. Was almost in the line of fire myself until I was warned off by someone who got burned.

[AussieDigger]

Hey all

I have been approached by SalesForce.com directly for a permanent role with them. Some of you might know my situation in that I am contracting in an end-of-line product and as such have a limited lifespan in this field until I move into a new product. So for me a permie role would be a stepping role into a new skillset, a step I will eventually have to take, probably within the next 12 months.

I've heard of SalesForce.com before but I admittedly I know very little about it, and I know little of how marketable a skill this would be to me if I was to go contracting in it, say in a couple of years' time.

Can anyone here shed any light on this company, product and its marketability?

CM

Word of advice - if SF UK approach you for a permie role, don't for a second assume they will REALLY want you. What the REALLY want is for you to spend weeks of your own time trying to learn their products, do a dog and pony show for them (assuming they stay awake!) and then see how you go. All very flattering to be approached but its really a numbers game to see how many people they can get in and how many stick.

Your best bet is with an independent consultancy rather than the vendor.

Besides all that, you will have to front all your own travel expenses and won't get them all back.

All up, its a time wasting experience. I'd do something else.

I'd got with someone else.

[ChimpMaster]

Hmmm things are moving on, a little slowly but that works in my favour. Situation now stands as:-

1. Senior management interview at SF next week.

2. My current client director calls me in for "a quick chat". To offer me permie role. I say no: I was earning close to £100k 10 years ago and the max you'll pay me is £65k, whereas you're paying me way more as a consultant right now.

3. Current client director ponders and then says they need me for next 12 to 18 months anyway. I hint to him that he needs to think about getting someone to shadow me, just in case I ask to double my rate at next extension; he says he hopes I won't do that . He leaves open the possibility of me becoming permie later down the line, once they have migrated away from my product, and be trained in SAP stuff then.


TBH guys I'm thinking I might just stick it out here at current client for the next 12 to 18 months. It's good money and I could have an easy life afterwards.

Why would I want to work for anyone else as a permie consultant, being shifted around client to client and away from the family?
SF excites me but could I handle being someone else's b1tch, even at a decent permie salary/package?

(answers welcomed)

[ChimpMaster]

famous quip of Ellison refering to Salesforce - I am inclined to agree.

there is a lot of showboating but somehow I think Oracle will turn the screws on SF.

apex? SQOL? messy mapping datatypes etc. 'orrible.

Oracle are particularly vexed because SF's CEO used to head them up. They have some serious rivalry issues

I agree, some of the tech takes some convincing, but then so did SAP's ABAP and many other proprietary tools/languages. Doesn't bother me - I'm not in it to become an APEX expert, I just want to move into a more recent tech area to reposition myself better for the next 10 years.

Anyhow I'm only 40% through the recruitment process so no way near yet! And if I don't get it I'll just keep on billing and then follow my pre-determined life plan instead.