Reply to: The software industry in America

[mrdonuts]

there this thing in statistics called the distribution curve, my day rate is above the mean because because of my capabilities relative to the existing population. What big business is trying to do is move the mean at the expense of the whole population. If you are a few deviations to the left of the mean then thats probably why you cant understand whats going on

[nomadd]

this doesn't add up when there's widespread evidence of unemployment amongst us software staff who have lost their jobs to outsourcers.

maybe what they mean is that they wont pay us staff at rates needed to support someone who lives permanently in the us. Which would be a similar situation to the UK

Big business wanting people to work for an unsustainably low salary(peanuts) to boost their profits , oh what a fckin surprise

its not about people or society or the economy its about their profits

+1

That's the gist of it. Big American Corps don't want to train up their own local people. But then again, neither does the Government. Much cheaper to import Microserfs working for peanuts. Short-termism at it's best.

Same situation in the UK - except we don't have a green card system and will let anybody in.

[d000hg]

its not about people or society or the economy its about their profits

Why you ask for £3-400/day are you thinking about people or society or the economy?

[mrdonuts]

this doesn't add up when there's widespread evidence of unemployment amongst us software staff who have lost their jobs to outsourcers.

maybe what they mean is that they wont pay us staff at rates needed to support someone who lives permanently in the us. Which would be a similar situation to the UK

Big business wanting people to work for an unsustainably low salary(peanuts) to boost their profits , oh what a fckin surprise

its not about people or society or the economy its about their profits

[Spikeh]

Interesting indeed!

[d000hg]

This is an interesting read: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa' ? The Register

[Spikeh]

Haven't been getting notifications for some reason, so just came on to find 33 replies! Thanks to those that have responded with constructive feedback, wasn't expecting for this to get any notice tbh

I've posted on here asking about rates, working conditions, hours and expectations in US offices; I'm dealing with visa, living and moving issues elsewhere, and am well aware of the potential pitfalls we'll face. Our decision to live there is based on a few years of research - I know about the costs involved, the people that live there, the social security system, the lack of socialised healthcare, the gun culture, the general attitude of Americans and the average wages for someone with my skill set (though of course, I still have a lot of facts to gather). My glasses most certainly aren't rose tinted... I just don't know anything about the actual working environments and expectations over there, as I have no experience of them, and no friends, family or colleagues that are in a similar position to me. Thanks for your opinions, but I wasn't ever expecting The Internet to give me a positive response in regards to our decision to move there

Although some of you have given some good advice, there's also a lot of misinformation here. I've spent a lot of time in America throughout my life (just come back from a month over there, for example) and it's not half as bad as most of you are saying. There are idiots all over the world, and America is no exception. In my specific situation, living in America makes a lot more sense than living in England, and no amount of anonymous opinions will change that.

So, the general gist I've got from all these posts is that the hours are generally longer, expectations are higher, and contracting may not be an option?

Ignoring the type of visa I go on (let's say I had a green card, with a route to US citizenship), what would be the best working route for me? Perm? Investing in an existing US business? Opening an US office? Closing my company down and starting again in the US? Does anyone have any experience in any of these routes?

A bit of vague background; I run 3 businesses in the UK, all in different industries - one is quite young, web based, and primarily focusses on the UK (I could expand to the US market pretty easily). There's no cost or effort involved in taking this business with me (in fact, it will cost me less to run and maintain in the US). The second has a lot of assets and a premises, and will require some serious funds to relocate; I'm either going to wind it down, or sell it and start again in the US (with my existing assets, if and when the opportunity presents itself). The third is my contracting business, which I treat as a business every step of the way (from running the books to client interaction). I contract, and freelance through it. I would be keen on investing in another US company, or possibly expanding in to the US, but I don't know if these are sensible or viable options?

I am very keen on staying self employed, one way or another. I do not want to go permanent again, unless I really have to. If I did, it would only be for as long as I would have to to appease the powers that be.

[mrdonuts]

the local talent is not useless, it is being binned by corporations/companys/accountants to improve margins in the short term at the expense of the people in the society's in which they live and operate

[eek]

I'd read the US was far more protectionist when it came to IT, relying on useless local talent. Not the case then?

From what I read any company that can do worker visas has done they upmost to use them often binning staff in State 1 to bring a visa based worker in State 2.

[d000hg]

+1 you only have to read cringley once in a while to see that while we complain about Bob's here its nothing like what's happened to IT there.

I'd read the US was far more protectionist when it came to IT, relying on useless local talent. Not the case then?

[MarillionFan]

+1 you only have to read cringley once in a while to see that while we complain about Bob's here its nothing like what's happened to IT there.

Personally I'm still 50/50. I'd always wanted to move to the US from when I was a kid, American Dream and all that. Having had a taste travelling backwards and forwards over the last 6 years in a couple of roles I can sort of see it's appeal. But at the end of the day, the cold hard cash is going to be the decisive trigger.

[eek]

As someone who worked there for a long time, I can say it's been all downhill since 2001. Try reading Krugman's article every day in the NYTimes, and see if you still want to move there.

It always amazes me how many people in Britain, Germany, and everywhere else still have a rose-tinted view of the Western frontier. It shows how powerful the influence of Hollywood has been (and its techie equivalents like Wired magazine). There is a lag of about 20 years between reality and perceptions.

+1 you only have to read cringley once in a while to see that while we complain about Bob's here its nothing like what's happened to IT there.

[darrenb]

As someone who worked there for a long time, I can say it's been all downhill since 2001. Try reading Krugman's article every day in the NYTimes, and see if you still want to move there.

It always amazes me how many people in Britain, Germany, and everywhere else still have a rose-tinted view of the Western frontier. It shows how powerful the influence of Hollywood has been (and its techie equivalents like Wired magazine). There is a lag of about 20 years between reality and perceptions.

[Scoobos]

To answer the OP.

1. You can't

2. You don't want to... (unless its the west coast).

Unless you enjoy working much longer hours, getting less holidays, having no social security at all and getting paid less.

[Hot Mess]

Spent two years working at a US Investment Bank in Manhattan. Rent, food and occasionally going out, sucked all my cash out the bank.

Basically the novelty wore off really quickly. I flew back home every 6 months as you never really know how much you'll miss the simple things once you can no longer access them.

Sport, news, food and stuff to do were the main ones.

People hardly ever went out, no drinking culture and some really irritating stereotypes, (mostly lardarses) whooping about 'hitting it out of the park' and touching fecking base

Never again