Reply to: Terminating A Contract Before Initial Term

[SueEllen]

The idea of being told I had to take lunch breaks at my desk would bring me out in a fit of laughter. That is insane!

I would mention Healthy and Safety Regulations verbally and in writing, contact the agency and walk.

Some of us have old injuries and conditions that means if we spend too long sitting down we seize up.

It's legally non-negotiable that if your work mainly involves you working with a VDU i.e. PC, laptop you are legally entitled to rest breaks, and the best way to get a worker who doesn't try and sue your ass is to allow them to take the breaks when they want and how they want within reason.

[Contractoid]

I have had 40 hour a week contracts with breaks on top of that. Currently I have a 7.5 hour a day contract with breaks on top of that. I take an hour lunch to train and end up coming and going 9-5.30.

The permies do not do the same they normally leave early but I think they come in early and do not take much of a lunch break, I think. I don't know. I don't care either.

The idea of being told I had to take lunch breaks at my desk would bring me out in a fit of laughter. That is insane!

This is my first ever contract in 12 years where the client has pursued a daily or weekly hour agenda either directly or indirectly and lessons have been learned! I know times are tough and sometimes you have to compromise but any hourly based commitment for contract / project work is a really bad place to be regardless of any IR35 implications. Not in all cases, but its a pretty strong indication of one or both of -

• The culture is all about old school "bums on seats" and less about delivery.
• There is already a tension between permies and contractors. The management are not competent enough to deal with it so they go with the lazy solution of securing consultant visibility through the contract.

Based on my experience my advice would be as follows. Im guessing most of you like me check your contract thoroughly for any nasties before signing anyway. If you have an intermediary Agency involved between you and your primary Agency specifically ask for any terms they have agreed in their contract with them that affect your day to day work environment, especially working hours etc. If there are any hourly commitments or expectations involved either directly or indirectly implies my advice is to walk away (actually run away), you are likely setting yourself up for a stinker engagement where your delivery quality will be irrelevant and you will be treated like a lepper by disgruntled permies.

[MyUserName]

I have had 40 hour a week contracts with breaks on top of that. Currently I have a 7.5 hour a day contract with breaks on top of that. I take an hour lunch to train and end up coming and going 9-5.30.

The permies do not do the same they normally leave early but I think they come in early and do not take much of a lunch break, I think. I don't know. I don't care either.

The idea of being told I had to take lunch breaks at my desk would bring me out in a fit of laughter. That is insane!

[BigTime]

Lunch breaks at desk - **** that. ...

+1

Hit the pub for a couple of hours or if beer's not your thing, find a 90 minute yoga class.

[psychocandy]

Actually I have done my best to deal with this. I was asked not to take lunch breaks away from my desk, despite the fact that others do – I complied. I have been asked to work a minimum of an 8 hour day – I have complied.

Lunch breaks at desk - **** that. I know its prof working day bollax and hours dont really matter but surely you can do what u like on your break?

Minimum 8 hours. **** that too. Sounds like client trying to screw the most hours they can out of contract rate.

To be honest, wouldn't do it. I end up working more than 8 hours on average but because I decide to and not because someone tells me to. Thats just nuts.

[Contractoid]

It isn't a farce, it is a common occurance that should be dealt with at ALL levels, permie deals with it as they have a choice, contractor doesn't stir the water and management deal with it when the other two can't do what they should. At the end of the day when it all goes wrong the contractor is the one that will lose out so in his interests to work harder at it IMO

Don't disagree with you that its up to everyone to make it work. I have had other scenarios where there is obvious friction which I have proactively dealt with and not require management intervention. Unfortunately here there is a deeply rooted anti Consultant Culture which I alone can’t fix. As an example, 3 others have left in the past 6 months, mid contract term. I’m just saying that when there is evidence of an endemic and persistent them and us scenarios then its up to management to intervene and get to the root causes. In this type of situation no one is winning.

I agree to some extent but I read in your posts that you have little regard for your actions and how it affects people around you, just dismissing any friction you create and letting someone else deal with it.



And putting a picture of time stamping machine on your work laptop is a highly professional approach that will not cause any disruption whatsoever. Ref : http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...ml#post1546189

Actually I have done my best to deal with this. I was asked not to take lunch breaks away from my desk, despite the fact that others do – I complied. I have been asked to work a minimum of an 8 hour day – I have complied. Then I get pulled into an office and told that its still not good enough! You are right, the screen saver wasn’t such a good idea, I have removed it.

To be honest reading your posts in the last few days I started off agreeing with some of the problems you have been having. A couple of days on and many posts later I think you are the root of most them.

Peace out and all that.......

Entitled to your view of course but I have several engagements of 2 years plus with multiple extensions and know how to play nicely and compromise with the client to keep everyone happy. The fact that 3 other contractors have left mid term recently and given me very negative feedback about their experiences hopefully demonstrates what im dealing with here.

[northernladuk]

The whole “them and us” permie vs contractor / interim thing is a farce.

It isn't a farce, it is a common occurance that should be dealt with at ALL levels, permie deals with it as they have a choice, contractor doesn't stir the water and management deal with it when the other two can't do what they should. At the end of the day when it all goes wrong the contractor is the one that will lose out so in his interests to work harder at it IMO.

Unfortunately the Permie & Contractor working together world isn’t so simple and you get all the noise about “they get paid more than me”, “they should be forced to work longer hours” “how dare they leave early on a Friday” and on and on, blah, blah, blah which causes the usual friction and tension. In my view its the Senior Managements responsibility to deal with all this children’s playground mentality and deal with it as leaders rather than stick their heads in the sand and pretend it isn’t happening.

I agree to some extent but I read in your posts that you have little regard for your actions and how it affects people around you, just dismissing any friction you create and letting someone else deal with it.

If they choose to utilise experienced Contactors and Interims to resource their departments delivery objectives they have a responsibility to nurture an environment where the 2 can work together amicably and efficiently without all this pathetic and very disruptive politics. Of course in turn we as Contractors have a responsibility to act professionally and work on the various relationships we have with both permies and contractors alike, but why should we have to put up with all this crap without any senior level support if we are meeting or exceeding the deliverables we contract to?

And putting a picture of time stamping machine on your work laptop is a highly professional approach that will not cause any disruption whatsoever. Ref : http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...ml#post1546189

To be honest reading your posts in the last few days I started off agreeing with some of the problems you have been having. A couple of days on and many posts later I think you are the root of most them.

Peace out and all that.......

[Contractoid]

Not sure if OP is saying that though NLUK. I'd agree with you to a certain extent - clients dont want contractors who act up and think they come and go as they please. It upsets the permies for a start. If everyone else works 8 hours or so then I'll do it.

But then again, as OP says, if he works 12 hours one day, then I wouldnt expect to have grief if I wanted to leave an hour early one day.

The whole “them and us” permie vs contractor / interim thing is a farce. Lets say we lived in a permie only world where contractors were made an illegal form of resourcing, now its a level playing field. Permie A is at Grade x and is performing excellently in the eyes of their manager and averages a 35 hour week. Permie B also at Grade x and not performing well in the eyes of the same manager works on average a 45 hour week (ie – is adopting the being seen to be working policy to overcome their under performance). Which one is adding most value to the business? Obvious Answer.

Should permie B approach the manager with a grudge against Permie A complaining that Permie A isn’t working as many hours as them then the said Manager (assuming they are even remotely competent) would tell permie B that Permie A hours of work are nothing to do with them and that they should be worrying more about their own performance than bitching about other members of the team.

Unfortunately the Permie & Contractor working together world isn’t so simple and you get all the noise about “they get paid more than me”, “they should be forced to work longer hours” “how dare they leave early on a Friday” and on and on, blah, blah, blah which causes the usual friction and tension. In my view its the Senior Managements responsibility to deal with all this children’s playground mentality and deal with it as leaders rather than stick their heads in the sand and pretend it isn’t happening. If they choose to utilise experienced Contactors and Interims to resource their departments delivery objectives they have a responsibility to nurture an environment where the 2 can work together amicably and efficiently without all this pathetic and very disruptive politics. Of course in turn we as Contractors have a responsibility to act professionally and work on the various relationships we have with both permies and contractors alike, but why should we have to put up with all this crap without any senior level support if we are meeting or exceeding the deliverables we contract to?

I have had the pleasure to work in places where all this pathetic behaviour didn’t occur where permies and contractors worked perfectly well together. Great projects were delivered, well in excess of expectations and in turn a healthy positive culture maintained which attracted and retained high quality permies and contractors alike. The one i’m in at the moment will simply see the best people leave and the dross stay on carrying on with their pathetic back stabbing attitudes. Good business sense? I think not.

Anyway Peace Brothers, its only a job.

[psychocandy]

Did a contract once where the team were a great bunch but the manager was a complete miserable sod. Every time he was there was like having a black cloud in the room.

In the end, I didnt take the renewal cos I had something else lined up anyway. Ended up nearly going back there once - I'd heard manager had moved on to something else. Wouldnt have considered it otherwise.

The permies had the worst of it though. They were scared stiff of him.

One poor sod was in hospital with something serious wrong with his ears - ended up couldnt fly for 6 months. Manager refused to give him an extra days leave so he could get the train to France or wherever for his ski-ing hol. Bit tight that for one day I thought.

[Mupps]

Randomly buy yourself something nice with the daily proceeds of being able to put up with the crap there. Maybe a nice coupla £K watch. Then everytime you are tempted to chuck it in just think to yourself "ah-ha, i got this for myself for staying"

or just chuck it in an sit around at home wondering when summer starts.

[Vandalay]

Morally speaking, no problem with walking unless you're bound to a minimum term contractually.

Whether it's right for you or not depends on if you've got anything good lined up / warchest.

[psychocandy]

Not surprised if it is toxic there if you flatly refuse to work the 8 hours everyone else does, whinge about it and are investigating the legality of it. They must love you.

Not sure if OP is saying that though NLUK. I'd agree with you to a certain extent - clients dont want contractors who act up and think they come and go as they please. It upsets the permies for a start. If everyone else works 8 hours or so then I'll do it.

But then again, as OP says, if he works 12 hours one day, then I wouldnt expect to have grief if I wanted to leave an hour early one day.

[lukemg]

I've stayed at some grim places when I shouldn't really have done so. It's partly lazyness and inertia if they want me to stay. Couple of bench spells too makes it harder to just jack without another one to go to.
I do find I can put up with huge amounts of grief because I am 'just visiting' and while I will do a professional job, I don't kid myself that it means anything in the great scheme of things apart from generating revenue for me, so try not to get too upset or involved.
I make it an absolute rule to try to get on with everyone. At one place a chap I hated invited me to his wedding as he didn't have a clue. Having said that, everyone has a breaking point and I had a stand-up row with a perm twat in last job and expected the bullet, I lasted another 18 months...

[GillsMan]

I've stuck it out at places I hated before. In fact, at my last client, I even accepted two very short extensions, even though I absolutely hated it there - similar thing to the OP really, idiot permies, toxic atmosphere, they really didn't have a clue about contractors, etc. In fact, I brought up several times, that they weren't using my skills and expertise at all. Several times, I found myself data cleansing spreadsheets, a task that's pretty menial for me. I pointed out to them that they could pay a temp a fraction of what they pay me to do it, but they were happy for me to carry on.

I must admit, I had a falling out with one of the permies there, an absolute idiot of a chap. One day, he absolutely exploded at me, he called me a "joke" twice, "flaky", said I was a "loser" and "overly emotional". He basically went postal on me, and on the shop floor. I just laughed really, reported it to his line manager and said essentially, I couldn't have that happen again. I really hated this guy, and the whole place, but I didn't leave and I stayed until my work was complete.

That's not to say I'd always do that, but in general I'd have to find it much worse than even that to leave early. If there was no work, I'd do it to save the client money, and if they started making things difficult from an IR35 perspective (e.g. trying to dictate my hours), I'd walk then as well. But that's about it.

[cojak]

I left a contract one month into an extension when the project got canned - I didn't really care what the client thought as they really couldn't find their own way out of a paper bag.

With 12 year's experience the decision is yours, we don't work there so we don't really know how bad it is.