Reply to: Your policy on overtime?

[SueEllen]

There's no need to "put your fist down"
Just come in each day at the same time and leave each day at the same time.

Always make the assumption that YOU are in charge of your time, not the client

WHS.


If the client dare asks for you to work longer than just look at the long list of things you can do in your free time which BlasterBates posted and use one of them as why you cannot work longer.

[Spacecadet]

The boss in the new place is a bit of a pushover, so I will be putting my fist down each day

There's no need to "put your fist down"
Just come in each day at the same time and leave each day at the same time.

Always make the assumption that YOU are in charge of your time, not the client

[psychocandy]

FTFY

More likely to get decent response from CUK.

[BlasterBates]

....because of the bank holiday, do you reckon they will try and tell me that it still needs to be a 40 hour week? when it should be 32 hours + extra hours?

no, it should just be 32 hours.

[jonson]

thanks you guys have given me some balls...Anyway the per hour contract was accepted, anything over 40 hours a week is billed per hour. This will be the norm from now on..

The boss in the new place is a bit of a pushover, so I will be putting my fist down each day

The sending emails is a great idea to confirm time, I just got the same idea while walking to lunch...

because of the bank holiday, do you reckon they will try and tell me that it still needs to be a 40 hour week? when it should be 32 hours + extra hours?

[northernladuk]

If it was working away from home in the office, no way ever.


I dont mind working at the weekend as long as its:-

A) Paid and not free. This includes getting it authorised properly.
B) Done from home.
C) Arranged before 4pm on Friday afternoon.
D) Client doesnt get stroppy if come 4pm on a Friday I tell them I cant because I've got plans for
the weekend.
E) When I have asked CUK if I should work it and they say yes

FTFY

[psychocandy]

you just need to be firm and if necessary bull tulip them that you have something to go to (don't say home cause they'll just get jealous)

But really it comes down to how desperate you are for the work. Personally I wouldn't want an extension with a company who insisted that overtime was the norm.

Weekend work I am especially loathe to do given that I usually work away during the week.

If it was working away from home in the office, no way ever.


I dont mind working at the weekend as long as its:-

A) Paid and not free. This includes getting it authorised properly.
B) Done from home.
C) Arranged before 4pm on Friday afternoon.
D) Client doesnt get stroppy if come 4pm on a Friday I tell them I cant because I've got plans for the weekend.

[BlasterBates]

Yes agreed start arranging appointments, agreeing to meet people, night school, join a gym i.e. get a life. Once you have commitments you won't be staying late and if you do you'll be arguing your case, and hence gaining compensation from the PM as you should be.

[Spacecadet]

you just need to be firm and if necessary bull tulip them that you have something to go to (don't say home cause they'll just get jealous)

But really it comes down to how desperate you are for the work. Personally I wouldn't want an extension with a company who insisted that overtime was the norm.

Weekend work I am especially loathe to do given that I usually work away during the week.

[psychocandy]

The old day rate thing again. Causes nothing but problems....

I can see the idea behind just refusing and walking out. All well and good until they get some other contractor in who will work these hours.

I get this grief at the moment. Dont mind working a 'bit' extra but they do push it sometimes.

Current client is 20 mins from home, so I dont mind 30 mins extra max per day. Still better off than if I had to travel 1 hour to client after all.

[SueEllen]

With due respect, the problem is not the client, the problem is YOU.

WHS

There is no one forcing you to work longer than agreed in the contract.

If you don't want to work as long as the client hints then tell them that you contract states your working hours are x to y or simply ignore their hints.

There are some of us who have more than one client sometimes so we refuse to work longer than is acceptable to us for any of our clients.

Personally the clients I've had who hint about doing extra unacceptable hours I ignore, mainly because they are the inflexible clients who I also don't learn any new skills/experience from.

[Wanderer]

I did work for a small company, and actually gave them a lower day rate because the contract was quite long. In return they basically worked me 9-9pm every single day, and then some weekends too, at normal rate.

With due respect, the problem is not the client, the problem is YOU.

Did they hold a gun to your head to make you work 9am-9pm and weekends too? Just say NO. When it gets to 5pm, go home. If the client starts going on about work needing to be done, cheerfully tell them that you have things to do this evening but you will be straight back in at 9am tomorrow to crack on with it. If there aren't enough hours in the day to do all the work then that's the client's problem, not yours.

Anyway my main question is, if the overtime clause is clearly in the signed contract, it is discussed prior in email etc, surely it is legally enforceable? What kinds of clauses could be a possible risk to this? what should I be looking for in the agency contract which may override this...oh and I refused to opt-Out, even though they suggested it was a great idea

Did the client explicitly agree to have you to work the extra hours? You really need to have this or else they will just deny that they ever asked you to and that you did it on your own initiative so they shouldn't have to pay. You will probably get your invoice queried so have all your evidence in a safe place. Also make sure you have emails to the client confirming that you were working extra hours to get the job done and preferably with their agreement for you to work the hours.

Make sure you keep some secondary proof of hours worked. If you are working late then save up your emails and bang one off every hour or so and another one just before you leave site to prove that you were there and working during the day.

Once the first invoice has gone through the client will either stump up for the extra payments or they will knock the overtime on the head. Either way, you're a winner and I think that's the best way of doing business. I don't buy into the "overtime is for permies" argument, I think it's perfectly reasonable to engage a worker on an hourly rate and pay them per hour worked.

[jonson]

@northern I looked at a few threads, this is more of a specific question on invoicing overtime as a supplement at the end of the contract

This^

(Ps. My own policy is that all overtime is chargeable beyond 40 hours per week. But I make that abundantly clear at the interview, so generally it's never been a problem. But clearly if you are working for a nice client, you are going to show some flexibility.)

@nomadd no not a nice client, I know they are complete c*nts from another friend and will be billing every hour....yes this is pretty much what I am saying now, and will remind them again of this.

The thing with the day rate is, often it has not been a problem until recently. I did work for a small company, and actually gave them a lower day rate because the contract was quite long. In return they basically worked me 9-9pm every single day, and then some weekends too, at normal rate. The guy was really taking the mick, of course he would cruise in at noon and leave at 6pm...

So basically either switching to an hourly rate or this. To be honest I have been offered the choice of hourly a few times but chose day rate instead...

Anyway my main question is, if the overtime clause is clearly in the signed contract, it is discussed prior in email etc, surely it is legally enforceable? What kinds of clauses could be a possible risk to this? what should I be looking for in the agency contract which may override this...oh and I refused to opt-Out, even though they suggested it was a great idea

[nomadd]

Do a search for overtime. It has been done a 100 times in some very long and heated threads.

Do you get your contracts checked by QDOS? Might want to get this one checked again

This^

(Ps. My own policy is that all overtime is chargeable beyond 40 hours per week. But I make that abundantly clear at the interview, so generally it's never been a problem. But clearly if you are working for a nice client, you are going to show some flexibility.)

[northernladuk]

Do a search for overtime. It has been done a 100 times in some very long and heated threads.

Do you get your contracts checked by QDOS? Might want to get this one checked again