Reply to: Working with no contract, just a purchase order..is this wise?

[Contreras]

Always trust your gut instinct, the times I haven't have been the ones I regret.

So true! You know, if there was only the one sticky post allowed then this^^ should be it.

The OP may well have made the right decision based on gut instinct and the way they read the situation and the people they were dealing with.

However a PO is a legal contract if you choose to accept it.

Walking out due to failure of the client to raise a PO is perfectly reasonable, especially if you have other doubts.

Working with only a PO as evidence of an agreement would be fine imho if the situation "felt right".

[cojak]

I've had a few shorter term engagements without a contract or even a PO on occasion and always been OK but it all depends on your personal risk tolerance. Normally it's been with bigger companies where I'm going direct and sometimes it just takes time to raise the PO etc. I've always had at least an email confirmation of the main terms or latterly sent them a basic t&c via EchoSign for electronic signature.

My calculation was on the basis that if I had nothing on and the work was local/remote and interesting for me my marginal cost to take it isn't much.

WTSS.

I'm turning up next week without a contract but I've sent them one and they asked me to turn up. Also they're big and I've worked with them before.

My gut is quite happy about this

[cojak]

By contract I meant the job, no there was no actual contract...not being able to supply me with a piece of paper, even handwritten agreeing at least the day rate and work hours, is something which makes me frown.

No I think I did the right thing here, the company looked too fly by night for my liking, and I have a strong instinct if not payment, there would have been problems with the actual work, what with the accountant butting in and such

Always trust your gut instinct, the times I haven't have been the ones I regret.

[TheSurfer]

I've had a few shorter term engagements without a contract or even a PO on occasion and always been OK but it all depends on your personal risk tolerance. Normally it's been with bigger companies where I'm going direct and sometimes it just takes time to raise the PO etc. I've always had at least an email confirmation of the main terms or latterly sent them a basic t&c via EchoSign for electronic signature.

My calculation was on the basis that if I had nothing on and the work was local/remote and interesting for me my marginal cost to take it isn't much.

[roger55]

How can you terminate a contract you say you don't have?

Seriously though, you need to play these things by ear and it's always worthwhile having a contract template (I use the QDOS one) you can alter and send them. Would take me 10 minutes to sort out a contract for a client who didn't have one ready.
With that in hand you can start turning the screws otherwise, as has been pointed out already, you're probably just throwing billable days away AND pissing off a client who want to give you work, probably have an urgent requirement for you to work hence the lack of being organised and are offering you direct work so no agency cut.

For what it's worth, I've worked without a signed contract on several occasions when going direct but the client has always accepted the QDOS contract by email and left the physical signing to a more convenient time.

Throwing your toys out the pram and refusing to work is generally frowned up on and I'd save that for unpaid invoices

By contract I meant the job, no there was no actual contract...not being able to supply me with a piece of paper, even handwritten agreeing at least the day rate and work hours, is something which makes me frown.

No I think I did the right thing here, the company looked too fly by night for my liking, and I have a strong instinct if not payment, there would have been problems with the actual work, what with the accountant butting in and such

[roger55]

A contract can be verbal, and you have proof, i.e. a purchase order, and there's no way they would lie about you not working there, because that is fraud. In the past I've often worked without a contract. It rolls in eventually.

My advice would be not to do that again, you've lost earnings and your reputation with the client.

I would only withhold services if they didn't pay.

never saw the PO...tbh don't really care about my reputation with this 1 amateur hour company, there are 1000s and no they don't really talk to each other...I worked in two companies next door two each other and they didn't even know about one another, despite being in the same industry...that 'you'll never work again this is a small town' is complete hogwash in London..there is plenty of work

Next time I will bring my own contract as advised, thanks for the tips

[Spacecadet]

Hi I'm Roger and an IT contractor, I specialize in Python.

Recently I left a contract after the second day, because they did not provide me with a contract. It was one of those "you are hired get started" situations. I told them I would like a written contract agreeing day rate and hours, but they said they would give me a purchase order instead. Anyway the next day I returned for the second day of work, and asked about the purchase order, they shrugged and said yeah we did it, although I never saw anything.

I was not happy carrying on without having something in my hand, on paper. So I told them I would be terminating the contract there and then, handed them the work done so far, and walked out. I felt I was acting a little on the paranoid side from their reactions, but then how can one possibly start a contract like this? was it an overreaction? or did I do the wise thing

The contract was supposed to be three weeks, I guess they were planning on giving me a purchase order each week. To be honest I think they would have paid, but this time it was a matter of principle, maybe an expensive choice

How can you terminate a contract you say you don't have?

Seriously though, you need to play these things by ear and it's always worthwhile having a contract template (I use the QDOS one) you can alter and send them. Would take me 10 minutes to sort out a contract for a client who didn't have one ready.
With that in hand you can start turning the screws otherwise, as has been pointed out already, you're probably just throwing billable days away AND pissing off a client who want to give you work, probably have an urgent requirement for you to work hence the lack of being organised and are offering you direct work so no agency cut.

For what it's worth, I've worked without a signed contract on several occasions when going direct but the client has always accepted the QDOS contract by email and left the physical signing to a more convenient time.

Throwing your toys out the pram and refusing to work is generally frowned up on and I'd save that for unpaid invoices

[SueEllen]

How would a contract instead of a PO have prevented late payment?

It wouldn't.

If a client (or agency) doesn't want to pay they will try not to pay regardless of what agreement is in place.

However having a documented agreement makes it easier to chase them for payment.

[strawberrysmoothie]

I think you dodged a massive bullet. That sounds seriously dodgy. Not something I would do!

[JamJarST]

I did this once, for a two week piece of work, I wouldn't do it again.

It took me over 75 days to get paid after invoice and I had to call and personally chase the debt , with it eventually escalating to shouting on the phone; your instincts are right imo.

How would a contract instead of a PO have prevented late payment?

[psychocandy]

Yes but unless you have an alternative contract you can start straight away, you just throw money down the drain, and they can't just not pay you, you take them to the small claims court, but it would never get that far because they would pay you as soon as you threatened legal action, which incidentally is fairly common if you're not going through an agency because companies will delay payment as much as they can to reduce the working capital.

Blaster is right here. How badly do you need the work?

But it never ceases to amaze me how things are so important then the client cant be arsed to sort out the paperwork.

Similar with me. Client is jumping up and down about how important work has to be done over the weekend, then cant be arsed to simply email me giving me authorisation that I'll get paid. So it doesn't happen because I know their finance/contracts people will just reject the timesheet otherwise.

Not helped mind by one contractor here who I know in the past has worked at weekend for free FFS!

[BlasterBates]

Yes but unless you have an alternative contract you can start straight away, you just throw money down the drain, and they can't just not pay you, you take them to the small claims court, but it would never get that far because they would pay you as soon as you threatened legal action, which incidentally is fairly common if you're not going through an agency because companies will delay payment as much as they can to reduce the working capital.

[Scoobos]

I did this once, for a two week piece of work, I wouldn't do it again.

It took me over 75 days to get paid after invoice and I had to call and personally chase the debt , with it eventually escalating to shouting on the phone; your instincts are right imo.

[krytonsheep]

The normal PO way is, you give the client a quote for the work with terms & conditions they then come back with a purchase order for it (before you start).

The fact you were working on site, suggests they should have given you a contract / timesheet not a PO. Eitherway, they sound disorganised, which suggests getting paid may have been a headache. So it sounds like you did the right thing.

[cojak]

But they never actually gave the OP a PO, they just said they would.

I still think that he did the right thing, he didn't know for sure if they would pay him or not when he left.