Reply to: Started work without a contract, but on email from agency.

[draytop]

Update: Agency1 have now paid me for the one day and the one days notice. So they're in my good books again.

Agency2 however are ignoring me. Legal action pending.

My advice to any agent/agency is to remember that an email is submitable evidence in court and can constitute a binding contract depending on its contents.

My advice to any contractor is don't start any work without a contract and check the details of the contract, don't take any crap of agencies/agents, fight for your rights, and remember you are not your LTD company, they are two separate legal identities.

Most of the advice I got was to drop it and move on. That is not in my nature and I'm sick and tired of large companies and agencies dumping on the little guy.

[TheFaQQer]

And by your own comment you know Agency 1 will only pay you if client pays him, and he isn't going to tell you if they did or not so can forget the extra day IMO. And there is the comment TF put.

If correctly opted into the regulations (i.e. no valid opt out was secured), then the agency must pay for the work done, as long as you can prove that the work was done.

[TheFaQQer]

What are you talking about?

I am invoicing for days worked and the notice period given by the client (which DOES NOT have to be worked).

What does the contract say about mutuality of obligation?

What does the contract say about termination?

With a normal contract, designed to help your IR35 situation, there will be a clause which says that the client is not obliged to offer you work, and you are not obliged to accept any work that they offer. Since they are not obliged to offer you work, then they have no obligation to pay you for not doing any work.

You only have to do a read on here about getting paid for doing no work during a notice period.

[northernladuk]

What are you talking about?

I am invoicing for days worked and the notice period given by the client (which DOES NOT have to be worked).

Check your contract. If it is outside IR35 you will have a Mutuality of Obligation clause saying that they do not have to offer you work and you do not need to accept it. If you do not do work you don't get paid.

[northernladuk]

northernladuk, it's Agency1's problem because my contract is with them not Client1. I don't work for free and i'm sure you don't. The one day notice is in the contract between Agency1 and my company. Therefore I have invoiced for 2 days. 1 day worked and 1 days notice.

And Agency 1 needs contract with client. If client withdraws the contract Agent1 also loses out so is actually in the same boat as you. No point writing agent 1 off when it is out of his control. That is all I was pointing out.

And by your own comment you know Agency 1 will only pay you if client pays him, and he isn't going to tell you if they did or not so can forget the extra day IMO. And there is the comment TF put.

Same goes for Agency2, I have an email from them saying they will pay for the one day worked (Emails are submissable as evidence of a contract by law), so again an invoice has been raised for that one day and not the notice, as it was me giving them notice, not the other way around.

Seems reasonable.

[draytop]

Well, you're not going to get that. Getting paid for doing no work is what happens to permies, not contractors.

What are you talking about?

I am invoicing for days worked and the notice period given by the client (which DOES NOT have to be worked).

[TheFaQQer]

northernladuk, it's Agency1's problem because my contract is with them not Client1. I don't work for free and i'm sure you don't. The one day notice is in the contract between Agency1 and my company. Therefore I have invoiced for 2 days. 1 day worked and 1 days notice.

Well, you're not going to get that. Getting paid for doing no work is what happens to permies, not contractors.

[draytop]

MarillionFan, BlasterBates, TheFaQQer, Thanks for the advice. Invoices have been raised.

northernladuk, it's Agency1's problem because my contract is with them not Client1. I don't work for free and i'm sure you don't. The one day notice is in the contract between Agency1 and my company. Therefore I have invoiced for 2 days. 1 day worked and 1 days notice.

Same goes for Agency2, I have an email from them saying they will pay for the one day worked (Emails are submissable as evidence of a contract by law), so again an invoice has been raised for that one day and not the notice, as it was me giving them notice, not the other way around.

It is a pity the total amounts are less than £1000, as then i could submit Statutory Demands for the amounts.

[TheFaQQer]

Here is the sequence of events:

Check that the contract with the agencies does not include anything ridiculous like "if we lose the work to someone else, we pay you nothing" or words to that effect.

Bill both agencies for the work that you did.

Find some other work to do.

If you get nothing from either of the agencies, then follow it up with an invoice for late payment, and finally a small claims court if necessary.

Regardless of how put out you feel, you don't have a claim for expenses, unless the contract says that they will pay expenses.

[BlasterBates]

No harm in billing them for the day as you're within your rights. You can also lodge a claim with the small claims court, that might motivate them to settle. I think you proably wouldn't be able to claim more than the day you worked, especially as the contract has one day's notice in. Paying a lawyer would probably cost you as much as you've lost already.

If you do chase it up legally yourself I think you have a very good chance of getting some money out of them as once you go legal it forces them to hire a lawyer and it would be cheaper simply to give you a couple of hundred.

Wouldn't worry too much about it, focus on finding a new contract.

[northernladuk]

Apologies for posting this twice on the two threads. Both posts are actually true!

Here is the sequence of events:

Friday 20th January: Receive email from Agency1, saying 3 month contract with client1: Day rate, Length of Contract, Clients name and address.
Saturday 21st January: Book hotel for 5 nights as it is over 200miles from my home.
Sunday 22nd January: Drive to and stay at hotel.
Monday 23rd January: Work for 1st day at client1. Get phonecall from Agency1 saying client1 is in a mess and doesn't want me to go back. (Yes client1 is in a mess, trying to do SCRUM without a scrum wall).
Tuesday 24th January: Check out of hotel but get billed for 3 nights, hotel's policy is to charge an extra day for cancelling. Get phonecall from Agency2 saying can I start a 3 month contract with client2, I say yes.
Drive back to my parents (as it's nearer). Go to Martial Arts, injure my hand whilst sparring, but didn't think it was broken as I could move all my fingers.
Wednesday 25th January: Drive to client2 (Only 30 miles from parents house). Start at client2, achieve more in 5 hours than previous 2 contractors did in 2 weeks. Client2 really impressed, then notice my hand which had swollen up like a balloon. Send me to hospital. Hospital xray and confirm my hand is broken, inform me not insured to drive. I inform client2 and agency2. Client2 verbally says "sorry to hear that, but we will pay for a whole day for the work I'd done. Get confirmation email from agency2 to submit a timesheet and client2 will pay for the one day.
Thursday 26th January, Try to access online timesheet system of agency2 to find contract deleted,so won;t let me create a timesheet. Chase agency2, no joy.
Friday 27th January, chase agency2, no joy.

Today (Monday 30th January), agency2 finally get back to me to say they won;t pay, as they lost contract to another agency.

Talk about bad luck. I have been contracting for nearly 20 years now and never had anything like this happen.
I will NEVER work with agency1 or agency2 again, EVER.

It's not that I am a miserable b'stard or anything but how is the client not wanting you Agency 1's problem and how is you breaking your hand Agency 2's problem? In my eyes contractors get canned on the first day from time to time,we see it here often enough, you breaking your hand is an instant can. They want someone to do the work quickly, not support someone who is incapable of doing the job, that is why we command the rates we do. Part and parcel of the role.

An unfortunate situation indeed but not totally the agents fault from what I can see.

[draytop]

Both are true!

Are you gonna make your mind up? Did you break your hand or get finished by the client?

Apologies for posting this twice on the two threads. Both posts are actually true!

Here is the sequence of events:

Friday 20th January: Receive email from Agency1, saying 3 month contract with client1: Day rate, Length of Contract, Clients name and address.
Saturday 21st January: Book hotel for 5 nights as it is over 200miles from my home.
Sunday 22nd January: Drive to and stay at hotel.
Monday 23rd January: Work for 1st day at client1. Get phonecall from Agency1 saying client1 is in a mess and doesn't want me to go back. (Yes client1 is in a mess, trying to do SCRUM without a scrum wall).
Tuesday 24th January: Check out of hotel but get billed for 3 nights, hotel's policy is to charge an extra day for cancelling. Get phonecall from Agency2 saying can I start a 3 month contract with client2, I say yes.
Drive back to my parents (as it's nearer). Go to Martial Arts, injure my hand whilst sparring, but didn't think it was broken as I could move all my fingers.
Wednesday 25th January: Drive to client2 (Only 30 miles from parents house). Start at client2, achieve more in 5 hours than previous 2 contractors did in 2 weeks. Client2 really impressed, then notice my hand which had swollen up like a balloon. Send me to hospital. Hospital xray and confirm my hand is broken, inform me not insured to drive. I inform client2 and agency2. Client2 verbally says "sorry to hear that, but we will pay for a whole day for the work I'd done. Get confirmation email from agency2 to submit a timesheet and client2 will pay for the one day.
Thursday 26th January, Try to access online timesheet system of agency2 to find contract deleted,so won;t let me create a timesheet. Chase agency2, no joy.
Friday 27th January, chase agency2, no joy.

Today (Monday 30th January), agency2 finally get back to me to say they won;t pay, as they lost contract to another agency.

Talk about bad luck. I have been contracting for nearly 20 years now and never had anything like this happen.
I will NEVER work with agency1 or agency2 again, EVER.

[northernladuk]

Are you gonna make your mind up? Did you break your hand or get finished by the client?

[MarillionFan]

Wow, you don't have a lot of luck, do you!

Bill for the work that you did, chalk it up to experience, move on to the next gig and see if you can last longer than one day.

WHS. Bill for the day. By starting and by the client allowing you on site then effectively you should be paid for the day.

Which reminds me. I need a new contract for Wednesday. Better phone my agent

[TheFaQQer]

Wow, you don't have a lot of luck, do you!

Bill for the work that you did, chalk it up to experience, move on to the next gig and see if you can last longer than one day.