Reply to: Contract documentation, is this normal?

[Contreras]

I think you're being a bit anal

I resent that assertion. Bloody minded grumpy old git, maybe.

[Mr.Whippy]

I dont even bother raising a 'dummy' invoice.

If not, how do you record the transaction in your Ltd Co files which your accountant would need at end of year?

I don't raise my own invoices either. The one generated by my agent has an invoice number which I use to record the transaction in my records. My accountant's have been fine with that.

[cojak]

Nope, I produce dummy invoices too. It keeps my bookkeeping aligned.

[SteelyDan]

For self-billing, you don't get a remittance. You get an invoice, which the client raises for you, with your VAT number and company name on it.

From Hays, I received a 'Remittance/Invoice', and was advised (by my, maybe over zealous, accountant) to produce a 'dummy' invoice. Works for me but others may have different views.

Maybe they suggested it because it would make their life easier at end of year.

[TheFaQQer]

I dont even bother raising a 'dummy' invoice.

If not, how do you record the transaction in your Ltd Co files which your accountant would need at end of year?

To my mind, just a remittance advice from the agency wouldn't be sufficient; you need the 'dummy' invoice to reconcile the remittance advice and the payment, otherwise no one would be able to trace where the payment derived from. I think it's called 'audit trail'? Or maybe my method is OTT?

For self-billing, you don't get a remittance. You get an invoice, which the client raises for you, with your VAT number and company name on it.

[SteelyDan]

I dont even bother raising a 'dummy' invoice.

If not, how do you record the transaction in your Ltd Co files which your accountant would need at end of year?

To my mind, just a remittance advice from the agency wouldn't be sufficient; you need the 'dummy' invoice to reconcile the remittance advice and the payment, otherwise no one would be able to trace where the payment derived from. I think it's called 'audit trail'? Or maybe my method is OTT?

[BolshieBastard]

I think you're being a bit anal regarding the passport. Its required for proof of identity. Refuse to provide it or any other form of photo id ie drivers licence, and the offers will be withdrawn.

I had to get a photo drivers licence as my passport is OOD. Although some agents accepted it this way, more and more were becoming reluctant to accept it.

As regards self billing, I really dont get why people think there's something IR35 ish about it. I dont even bother raising a 'dummy' invoice. Timesheet signed, agent pays and sends a VAT invoice in return. If it has your co's name on it, daily rate, VAT reg no, company no, its an invoice not a payslip.

In any event, HMRC have said self billing isnt any pointer to being an employee.

In my experience, refuse to send certain docs to an agent will result in withdrawal of job offers. Some you can get away with.

[Pseudonym]

Just landed a gig with BigCo engineering firm, 30 mins commute, and rate seemingly at the top-end of what my skills currently command (judging from my job search over the last month), so overall I was feeling fairly content. That is until, after some chasing the agent for a written contract, he finally sent through "the paperwork":

Dear Contreras,

please let me have the following details:

Copy of COI
Copy of VAT Certificate
Copy of the picture page of your passport

Full Contact Details (Address etc)

Bank Details

please sign and return:

- Contract Confirmation Document (single page schedule)
- Working Time Regulations (*)
- Agency Regulations ("opt-in/out" form, *)
- Self Billing Agreement
- Statement of Acknowledgement for the ClientCo Code of Conduct for Contractors (*)

also for your information:

- ClientCo Global Internet Policy
- ClientCo Insurance Cover Statement for Temporary Workers
- Procedure for Temporary Worker Timesheets (mentions ClientCo SAP system )
- ClientCo Code of Conduct - Temporary Workers
- REC/PCG Conduct Regulations 2003 Leaflet
- ClientCo Substance Misuse Policy for Temporary Workers
- ClientCo Smoking Policy
- AgencyCo Welcome Letter
- AgencyCo Limited Company T&Cs (actually, "The Contract")

(*): to be signed in a personal capacity

Re the agency regs "opt-out": I have already met with the client so this is probably a moot point, but the T&C document basically says unless you've signed to opt-in then you are by default opt-out. I'd rather be opt-in, I think.

Working Time Regulations: I'm not sure what business it is of the agency whether me and MyCo have agreed a maximum working time. In any case I'm a director with no employee contract so WTR do not apply, right?

Self Billing: never done that before. What if ClientCo SAP system goes down, or the PHB plays power games with approving timesheets. It's optional, so I may Just Say No.

Perhaps I've gone soft after months lazing on the bench. All my contracts so far have all been working from home , at around the same rate as this, and only one gig via an agent so it's difficult to know as to what is the norm.

My first reaction is OTT or wut?! along with IR35 alarm bells, and the feeling that I'm about to be owned...

Then me thinks heck just sign the damn paperwork and get earning.

Or am I just not cut out to be a contractor?

Based on the info above, it seems like I am currently using the same agency perhaps? From my experience, a top notch service.

[Contreras]

Thanks for all the comments. Sorry I've not been able to reply until now as I've been chasing another gig, and err, well, the thing is... just had confirmation of an offer. And if Heineken made gigs this one would be it, I reckon. Closer to home, better rate, diverse/interesting work, and great people.

And to top it off the agent is using the PCG contract template, with so far no sign of any additional nonsense or tulip as with the last one.

However thanks for all the comments. It's been useful to help see through the chaff to what is or isn't worth worrying about. Responses below, fwiw.

they need your passport photo as employers are legally bound to make sure you are eligible to work in the UK

That neatly highlights exactly my concern - I'm not their employee and don't want to be seen as such either. In fact I hadn't even really considered the data protection issue and TheFaQQer makes a good point about redacting the sensitive information.

I have no problem with My Co. formally declaring that it does not employ illegal workers.

Re the Working Time Regulations declaration they asked for, the same principle applies.

Does My Co. need to formalise a general statement of compliance with all applicable UK and EU legislation, perhaps!?

Statement of Acknowledgement for the ClientCo Code of Conduct for Contractors (*)
(*): to be signed in a personal capacity

Don't worry about it, you are just signing it as a representative of your company. If they had a sparkie come and work on site for a week, no doubt he would have to sign one too

And I can well understand the sparkie telling them where to stick it too. What it says:

I agree and confirm that as a supplier of services to BigCo., its subsidiaries or divisions I will:
yada yada...
I understand any breach by me of the agreements given above may lead to the termination of my assignment with BigCo.

Signature, Print Name, BigCo. cost centre, etc.

Me wonders, IR35 On A Plate? Perhaps not, but that's where I'm coming from. Overall I think it's the whole "Temporary Worker" thing used in the title of about just every document that got me grump.

And what's the point in asking for copies of COI and VAT registration, when both details can be freely and instantly verified online, and yet paper copies can so easily be forged? The practice of accepting scanned copies as proof would seem only to facilitate the exact fraud it is trying to prevent.

Good choice - DON'T opt out. The agency is wrong in suggesting that you are by default opt-out. With regard to this document, don't return it, don't do anything with it, don't enter into a discussion about it. Just tell them that you are going to take the "do nothing" option. If they think that makes you opted out then that's their stupidity

Good advice, thanks. But actually upon re-reading the contract I have to put my hands up to that one as I totally misinterpreted what it was saying. In my defence a double-negative statement in 50 words of un-punctuated legalese didn't help!

Anyway have a good weekend, all. I plan to!

[SteelyDan]

OK, msg received; no more treading on toes

[TheFaQQer]

Just landed a gig with BigCo engineering firm, 30 mins commute, and rate seemingly at the top-end of what my skills currently command (judging from my job search over the last month), so overall I was feeling fairly content. That is until, after some chasing the agent for a written contract, he finally sent through "the paperwork"

It all looks pretty normal to me.

When I send an image of the passport to an agency, I blank out the passport number, though, just in case. Strictly speaking, if they are using a passport to verify identity, then they need to see it in person - I have had one client tell me to bring it onsite the first week and they have checked it on behalf of the agency.

I've done self-billing a few times now, and never had a problem with it. If you do, then you can opt out later and manually bill. Make sure that you get a copy of the invoice, though - I've had a paper copy from one agency and PDFs emailed through from the others in the past.

Good luck with it.

[TheFaQQer]

FTFY

their

Heinous crime

Don't be stealing The FaQQers job. I leave a few around so he has something to do.

[SteelyDan]

I think (having quickly gone thru their list of documentation requirements), this is all standard stuff. One of the agents I referred to are so 'documentaion & paperwork driven', it's quite unbelievable & it even frustrates end clients.

Key thing, as mentioned by others is ensuring the contract is correct/appropriate.

[SteelyDan]

I'm in two minds about this. If you agree to self billing then you can't raise an invoice to them (only a timesheet). If you can't raise a timesheet then they don't raise an invoice so there is no debt. I would be inclined to put them on probation for a few months to make sure they pay on time before I agreed to self billing. Certainly if you raise your own invoices then you control the billing/payment cycle not them. I really don't know if where you stand if you have self billing on (say) 7 day terms and they refuse to raise an invoice for 14 days. When does the invoice become due/overdue? What if you can't get a timesheet done and you want to invoice anyway? Does anyone know how this works?

In my experience the SelfBill invoice is pretty harmless, although I was cautious when I first came across it, and puzzled how I would invoice. I've done this twice now (Hays & Capita) but it works well.

In short, you complete a timesheet at end of week via agent portal, client authorises it, notifies/sends to agent, agent processes it, agent sends you SelfBill invoice (Weds), when paid you receive remittance advice (Friday).

It's all quite smooth, but dependent upon you getting the timesheet done on time (Friday end of play earliest/Monday latest) so agency can do their bit (Weds [SelfBill invoice]) and send you remittance on Friday (money in the bank) if they are paying on 7 day cycle.

You end up creating what you might call a dummy invoice, purely for your accounting purposes; it doesn't get sent to the client, or the agent, just kept in your records.

[CheeseSlice]

- Statement of Acknowledgement for the ClientCo Code of Conduct for Contractors (*)

[Edit]I wouldn't sign this one if I were you. Like you say, its a contract between you personally and the agency. It may circumvent the limited liability of your company and professional liability insurances you have (if you have any). The agreement may include a 'personal guarantee' of your work, which could leave you in some serious financial hardship if something goes wrong.

[Edit: Actually it doesn't sound exactly like I've seen before, as it refers to ClientCo. But check the text thoroughly anyway. Personal paperwork is dangerous territory]