Reply to: Permie Offer by client

[AnthonyQuinn]

My standard answer

I am not looking to work as a permie at this time. If things change I will let you know.

[beaker]

Just happened to me too... I told them thanks but no thanks - if I was to go permanent they would need to offer me something more senior.

They said they couldn't do it, so I offered my services again for a bigger project (at a 20% rate increase) and they agreed!

What recession?

[northernladuk]

Happened to me 6 months into my first contract. Turned them down flat, politely of course, along the lines of I knew the company wouldn't be able to make me an offer that would be good enough. Still there nearly a year later. Guess they can afford me....

They wouldn't ask you to go permie if they didn't need you would they. It is the cost of you that would have been the sticking point.

[Acme Thunderer]

Happened to me 6 months into my first contract. Turned them down flat, politely of course, along the lines of I knew the company wouldn't be able to make me an offer that would be good enough. Still there nearly a year later. Guess they must need me....

[Bexter]

The issue of going perm comes up quite a lot at my place too. They ask me every renewal and usually at least once in between, but I give them the same answer every time...."I love working here and would be more than happy to go perm, on the basis that my annual salary is the same as my contract salary". Of course they say no everytime, to which I simply explain that I can't do the same role, for less money, but with the addition of extra responsibilities and annual performace reviews, managements of others, blah blah blah.

I don't really see the need to lie or squirm around it. Its not like you're hurting their feelings or anything, if you don't want it just say thanks but no thanks!

[psychocandy]

But you said





Of course it is relevant. If you have a client that has a habit of taking on contractors and then offering them permie you could argue the client doesn't understand contracting and views everyone as potential/hidden perm and if that is the case everything changes. It is very relevant. You go on to mention your particular client doesn't which is fair enough but it is certainly something I would be very careful about, particularly if he offers you the role, you turn it down and carry on contracting in the same role.

Not a gauranteed pointer but one to watch for sure.

Fair point. But of course if they want to offer I dont have to accept....

I agree what you say though about them offering permie. Luckily in the current climate they dont want permie which suits me just fine...

[northernladuk]

<stuff>
They don't see me as a permie, but if they wanted me to become permie then it's not something that I would consider impacts my IR35 status one way or the other.

Agreed if you are happy with IR35 and feel confident nothing has changed but a situation that needs thinking about IMO. If the clients perspective shifts it is possible your IR35 could as well.

[northernladuk]

Well, that's hardly going to be no negotiation, is there?

But you said

Not negotiable as far as they are concerned.

Any client out there can take on a contractor, who works as a true contractor outside of IR35. Just because the client decides to try and get you to go permie is not relevant, is it?

Of course it is relevant. If you have a client that has a habit of taking on contractors and then offering them permie you could argue the client doesn't understand contracting and views everyone as potential/hidden perm and if that is the case everything changes. It is very relevant. You go on to mention your particular client doesn't which is fair enough but it is certainly something I would be very careful about, particularly if he offers you the role, you turn it down and carry on contracting in the same role.

Not a gauranteed pointer but one to watch for sure.

[d000hg]

I recognise this thought process too.

There are still plenty of people out there who think of us as simply temps who cannot get a permie job, especially non-managers who have no idea of the rates.

I imagine there are lots of contractors who are less militant about "contractor is best" and DO slide between contracting and employment over the decades.
Remember many do start contracting when unemployed, when a contract comes up which will keep them in work.

[TheFaQQer]

If they are treating you as temps to permie I would say being out of IR35 is going to be a big problem, paritcularly if time is the only factor and there is no negotiation.

They aren't necessarily treating temps as permies, though. They are exploring whether you would like to change the way that you work and become a permie.

My current gig is probably the most secure IR35 one I've had - I work from home, I choose my own hours, I use my own equipment, I work on a specific project with specific deliverables, the client has no direction or control.... However, if they offered a decent permie job, then I'd be hard pushed to say no, providing I'd still be working from home.

They don't see me as a permie, but if they wanted me to become permie then it's not something that I would consider impacts my IR35 status one way or the other.

[psychocandy]

If they are treating you as temps to permie I would say being out of IR35 is going to be a big problem, paritcularly if time is the only factor and there is no negotiation.

Well, that's hardly going to be no negotiation, is there? Any client out there can take on a contractor, who works as a true contractor outside of IR35. Just because the client decides to try and get you to go permie is not relevant, is it?

In my case, its not that they treat contractors as temp to permie, its just that after a while some bean counter usually decides they've spent enough on this particular person and wants to save some dough. Or they decide the person it too invaluable and wants more of a hold on them.

Both of which are valid reasons for a client, and its up to them. But then its up to the contractor whether they intend to do that, isn't it?

[rambaugh]

Interesting to hear everyone's experiences and ideas on approaching the matter. I should also mention the current contract is up for renewal very soon so its no surprise on the timing of the offer either.

A negative response is likely to affect the terms of an extension or perhaps could result in a decision against to extend. The client is also advertising the same permie position but is struggling to fill the role quickly which should add weight to an extension If I were to reject one way or another.

[northernladuk]

Client I work for is well-known for 'insisting' contractors go perm after a certain amount of time. Its a case of go perm or sod off..... Not negotiable as far as they are concerned.

If they are treating you as temps to permie I would say being out of IR35 is going to be a big problem, paritcularly if time is the only factor and there is no negotiation.

[jmo21]

I've had this in 2 contracts I have had, both were very local (just down the road) and both I said 'thanks but no thanks'.

The 2nd one the people I work with were shocked I think as they knew it was very local to me and I think were of the mindset that people contracted till a good permanent offer was offered and then took it.

It amazed me how good it felt to say no to both!

I recognise this thought process too.

There are still plenty of people out there who think of us as simply temps who cannot get a permie job, especially non-managers who have no idea of the rates.

[psychocandy]

Client I work for is well-known for 'insisting' contractors go perm after a certain amount of time. Its a case of go perm or sod off..... Not negotiable as far as they are concerned.

Of course, being in Wales, and it being a pretty niche skillset, they know you aint likely to say bye bye. It'd certainly be a tough call.

A lot of contractors have bitten the bullet and gone for this. Must admit I aint keen.....

Luckily, client has head freeze at the moment, so the subject aint coming up at the moment. Long may it continue !!!