Reply to: Braking into finance. Technologies .NET C++

[anothercodemonkey]

If you are a C++ guy then I'd stick with that rather than trying to learn C#.
I agree with what other people have said about TIBCO - don't put it on your CV if you don't have it.
At the moment there are two ways you could go
1. High frequency trading. This requires less finance/maths knowledge but you do need to be a bit of a demon on high performance coding and networking. I think that this is easier to learn that the requisite maths and finance and there are not as many people out there who have been doing this for ages.
2. Quant/Analytics code. A lot of pricing stuff is written in C++. To get one of these jobs is quite hard. You need good maths (PDEs, statistics, monte-carlo simulations, numerical methods) and finance knowledge (at least one of equities, interest rates or credit). A lot of these jobs are held by guys with PhDs in physics, engineering or maths. The bar here is high and since the arse has fallen out of the exotics and credit markets there are a lot more unemployed quants around. You might be able to get in on your C++ skills though since a lot of quants are better at maths than they are at coding!

If you are interested in doing a course you could try one of these two. £640 each, two hours a week for ten weeks.
Financial Engineering in C++ (Computational Finance Using Advanced C++ Design Techniques) | City University London
Advanced Financial Engineering - Interest Rate Derivatives in C++ | City University London

In terms of books the Wilmott books are quite a gentle intro to finance. Hull is pretty standard. For bonds you should look at this one.
The Handbook of Fixed Income Securities: Amazon.co.uk: Frank J. Fabozzi: Books
Dominic O'Kane wrote a good book on credit products too.

Good luck trying to break into finance. The market is pretty grim at the moment so you might want to wait until the new year when things pick up a bit.

[aceboy]

That banks that I deal with usually use Java for their pricing engines as there is a surplus of java developers. and Java has come on leaps and bounds in terms of performance.... C++ bods are difficult to come by.

WPF seems to have taken onboard for the GUI side at a few banks recently....

Ask yourself why you want to get into this space? the rates are dropping, there is a high attrition rate, the hours often suck...

[Scrag Meister]

Sounds to me you have the right sort of skills and background to get a job eventually just keep plugging away. C++ programmers are in short supply, though I would focus more on valuation rather than things such as forex trends. Read Options, Futures and other Derivatives by John Hull. Learn about interest rate curves, loans, swaps, options and so on and how to valuate them. That's mostly what it's about. Most apps are carrying out pricing and calculating risk.

John Hull on Derivatives.

Bought it, read some of it, sure its useful somewhere but not in the roles I seem to be covering.

[bilgehan]

Sounds to me you have the right sort of skills and background to get a job eventually just keep plugging away. C++ programmers are in short supply, though I would focus more on valuation rather than things such as forex trends. Read Options, Futures and other Derivatives by John Hull. Learn about interest rate curves, loans, swaps, options and so on and how to valuate them. That's mostly what it's about. Most apps are carrying out pricing and calculating risk.

Thanks for the book suggestion it looks good I 'll buy. Sending applications figers crossed thanks all for help.

[BlasterBates]

I won't lie I'll mention that I have exposure to these and not unfamiliar completely in order to increase my chances of interview. I am an experienced C++/C developer with UNIX and will get a job with those skills eventually.

Also one of the reasons I want to learn technologies used in IB sector is I have a keen interest in finance e.g. I started to program MQL learned a lot about forex trends, support/resistance how markets move basically.

Sounds to me you have the right sort of skills and background to get a job eventually just keep plugging away. C++ programmers are in short supply, though I would focus more on valuation rather than things such as forex trends. Read Options, Futures and other Derivatives by John Hull. Learn about interest rate curves, loans, swaps, options and so on and how to valuate them. That's mostly what it's about. Most apps are carrying out pricing and calculating risk.

[bilgehan]

For god's sake, don't put lies on your CV. This is one of the main reasons why banks ask for prior banking experience, to weed out people who submit great looking CV's which are full of lies

I won't lie I'll mention that I have exposure to these and not unfamiliar completely in order to increase my chances of interview. I am an experienced C++/C developer with UNIX and will get a job with those skills eventually.

Also one of the reasons I want to learn technologies used in IB sector is I have a keen interest in finance e.g. I started to program MQL learned a lot about forex trends, support/resistance how markets move basically.

[JoJoGabor]

thanks for the answers.

Do employers in finance give attention to skills which are not used at work? For example I'd like to download and study IBM MQ middleware as most of the roles requires middleware such as TIBCO(doesn't have trial). I'll write that to my CV but will put no experience on it.

Also do you know any good C++/C# book that focuses on finance subjects such as quantitative development + usage of some middleware which I can gain some hands on experience.

For god's sake, don't put lies on your CV. This is one of the main reasons why banks ask for prior banking experience, to weed out people who submit great looking CV's which are full of lies

[manclarky]

other such typographical howlers are frowned on

Wouldn't it be "frowned upon"?

[bilgehan]

it will make up for your lack of business experience at this point in the game (and I should know, as I've managed to bag two great contracts in IBs recently based on my "techie" skills alone...)

Congrats that's what I am trying to do, passed the phone and first face to face interview with an IB but failed the second one. I am hoping better luck next time.

Cheers.

[nomadd]

Hi,

I am C++/C developer in home media sector. I have 7 years experience in both languages. I want to break into finance and possibly my first job will be a permanent one.

I have 2 questions:

Which is more in demand in finance C# or C++ in your experience? In job boards it looks like there are more C# openings and I have good C++/STL experience and beginner level C#. I am thinking of improving my C#, NET but as I am a C++ developer I can't use it at work so I don't know whether it will give me any advantage while looking for job in finance. In your opinion should I spend my time on C#, NET or improve my C++ e.g. learn boost (I've never used boost and won't in my current role)?

thanks

Stick with the C++ for now. Concentrate on "threading" libraries and parallel/concurrent programming. Some low-level programming skills would also help (sockets, network, messaging, performance tuning, etc.) Those technical skills are in huge demand in Investment Banks at present: for example, Jobserve has 57 permie jobs paying £100K+ for C++ devs with solid threading and concurrency skills. Oh, and make sure you do your dev on a Linux box of some form (pref. RedHat.) The big push in IBs these days is to use clusters of commodity Linux boxes, as they work out far cheaper than traditional "big iron" and are much, much more scalable longer term. If you have an nVidia card in your PC, take a look at CUDA (it's C, but also supports C++ and has a highly parallelised implementation of STL) and all the tools are free now.

If you have very strong technical skills in those areas (NB. CUDA is just a "nice to have" and a good talking point at interviews; only a few banks use it at present), it will make up for your lack of business experience at this point in the game (and I should know, as I've managed to bag two great contracts in IBs recently based on my "techie" skills alone...)

[northernladuk]

I wouldn't call a language learnt from a book a skill either. Becareful about floating those about your CV. You gotta be good to break in to finance else your exit will be pretty quick. Kidding them about your skills is not a good start.

[Troll]

Braking rather than Breaking and other such typographical howlers are frowned on and will eliminate your c.v. at the beginning.

It's a bit of a conservative environment

HTH

[bilgehan]

very helpful chaps. thanks for the answers.

[ddaft]

Yeah I would stick anything like that down on your CV even if not used in real work capacity.

There are a few books out there that attempt to combine .net and finance but the ones i've seen have been pretty naff and manage to do a bad job on both fronts. You may have more luck on the c++ front as there are probably better quant books that combine the two. I'd stick to the usual techie books and get some intro to finance books. Probably stick to topics like general derivatives, options etc rather than specialize in specific markets like FX, Equities etc to begin with as the basic concepts are generally transferrable.

[bilgehan]

thanks for the answers.

Do employers in finance give attention to skills which are not used at work? For example I'd like to download and study IBM MQ middleware as most of the roles requires middleware such as TIBCO(doesn't have trial). I'll write that to my CV but will put no experience on it.

Also do you know any good C++/C# book that focuses on finance subjects such as quantitative development + usage of some middleware which I can gain some hands on experience.