New contract not signed by agent (yet)

[kingcook]

The contract does indeed have MOO and RoS clauses. I also have many emails (complete with replies) from the agent saying they (the agency) are still waiting for the client-to-agency contract to be signed and returned to them.

I sent an email last night, no reply. Have tried phoning a few times today, voicemail kicks in.

[SueEllen]

Hmm. Thinking about this if you sign a contract and then send it back the agent can, in effect (or think they can) hang on to this for as long as it suits them before signing it. This way even if the client puts things back a few weeks they can hold on to the contractor because you've signed it but they havent. In fact, I guess they could even then cancel if it all went wrong.

Hmmm. Not cool.

The contract should have MOO and substitution clauses so in theory if they keep you hanging on too long then you can say you will have to hire a sub-contractor to do the work.

Alternatively you can argue due to their lack of communication (specifically if you have asked them via email a couple of times when they posted the contract to avoid claims of lost in the post) that they have illustrated they have no intention of honouring the contract so you have pulled out. Obviously they will try and claim they didn't get your emails but if you show a history where they responded to previous ones then if they are stupid enough to take it further they won't easily be believed.

[psychocandy]

Hmm. Thinking about this if you sign a contract and then send it back the agent can, in effect (or think they can) hang on to this for as long as it suits them before signing it. This way even if the client puts things back a few weeks they can hold on to the contractor because you've signed it but they havent. In fact, I guess they could even then cancel if it all went wrong.

Hmmm. Not cool.

[SueEllen]

Good point! (blonde moment)

You should have contacted the client from the beginning when they started mucking you around with the dates.

Some clients have long procurement procedures where it has to go to various people to be signed off and if one of them is on holiday nothing happens until they come back in two weeks.

In one place I made sure the PM phoned the contractor who was suppose to be coming on board directly to tell him what was going on as I pointed agencies are hard to believe.

[kingcook]

How about phoning the client and confirming from them that everything is fine to start on Monday morning. A two minute phone call tomorrow morning will save you all the hassle.

Good point! (blonde moment)

[eek]

Ok.... been speaking to the agent lots. The agent is STILL waiting for the signed client-to-agency contract. This gig is due to start in 3 + a bit DAYS time on Monday.

A few days ago, the agent says that he has spoken with the client and they have posted it. So where TF is it?

Agent is saying it will be ok to go onsite on Monday regardless. The bit i'm worried about (and i have told the agent this) is having to cough up for travel + B&B fee's upfront for the week, only to have the client say "WTF are you doing here?" on Monday morning.

How about phoning the client and confirming from them that everything is fine to start on Monday morning. A two minute phone call tomorrow morning will save you all the hassle.

[kingcook]

Ok.... been speaking to the agent lots. The agent is STILL waiting for the signed client-to-agency contract. This gig is due to start in 3 + a bit DAYS time on Monday.

A few days ago, the agent says that he has spoken with the client and they have posted it. So where TF is it?

Agent is saying it will be ok to go onsite on Monday regardless. The bit i'm worried about (and i have told the agent this) is having to cough up for travel + B&B fee's upfront for the week, only to have the client say "WTF are you doing here?" on Monday morning.

[kingcook]

I'm definitely going to start the 1st gig that comes along.

Other gigs have come along (better paying ones and closer to home) while i've been waiting to start this one, and i've been professional by not jumping ship!! But the fact that they have started to arse about now is making me think "fook it".

Cheers for the advice all

[craig1]

You are in a pretty sticky situation there. I forget the official status here. He has offered you a contract and you signed so from the agents perspective (wrongly) it is done deal but I believe it needs both to sign to be watertight but you get in to the horrible place of implied agreement. I am not sure if this works both ways. I know if you start working without signing you have accepted by implied acceptance.

Whatever the legal standpoint the agent will throw a hissy fit and be all over you like a rash if you give backword now. At the end of the day regardless of who or who hasn't signed it they can only enforce it by taking it through legal channels, something I think I can say will never happen. He can only sue you for losses incurred and as you haven't started there are no losses.

I think if you do get work and take it there will be handbags at 10 paces but nothing will come of it if you stick to your guns and weather the mess through. He will of course suddenly appear with a signed contract and try and tell you they signed it before you signed with the new client etc so will be a complete mess.

Just depends on how tough you are and whether you care you piss of the client/agent that you will no longer be doing any business with in the future (possibly).

Regardless of how daft this sounds, this is how a court would see it:

What they're actually doing is not offering you the role when they send you the contract unsigned, it's an invitation to treat. When you sign and return the contract then it becomes your offer to them, when they sign, they accept and it's a binding contract, if they refuse to sign and you start work anyway and they pay then it's an implied acceptance. The agencies do it this way so that they're not being dragged into having an accepted contract with a contractor who the client no longer wants before they've started.

If they've not signed, you've not started and you're reasonably sure the signed copy is not in the post then you can withdraw your offer at any time without legal repercussion.

It's exactly the same as a supermarket. All the goods on the shelves are invitations to treat not offers, you offer the supermarket the money for the goods and they can accept or reject at that point, you can also withdraw the offer up until they accept your money. That's what gives them the legal basis to turn away 25 year olds wanting to buy stuff marked 18.

(Craig1 LL.B.(Hons) but not a lawyer)

[Wanderer]

I had a contract agreed and signed weeks ago, to start in September.
The client wanted to delay start date by 3 weeks due to project slipage. Ok i said. A new contract schedule was written with a new start date (3 weeks added on).
I have signed and returned to the agent. However, the client has yet to sign any new paperwork with the agent. So i'm in limbo atm. TBH i smell the client trying to delay me again (or maybe bin me).

Well, they've already reneged on the original signed contract so I wouldn't feel bad about doing the same to them. They can't just put you on hold and lock you out from doing other jobs. Does your contract have a RoS in it? If the job does come up then offer to put a subbie in there.

Bear in mind that it's not the agent who signs the contract - it'll usually be a director of the company.

My recent experience is that same as SueEllen, my recent contracts have all been signed off by the admin boys and girls.

[SueEllen]

Bear in mind that it's not the agent who signs the contract - it'll usually be a director of the company.

I had one of my contracts signed by an administrator and others signed by random people, who definitely weren't the company directors. All obviously had been given permission by the directors to enter into contracts.

I've also had a couple of agencies where they couldn't be bothered to sign the contract and every time I asked I was given the brush off - I stopped asking after my first invoice was paid.

[The Agents View]

I would just take and start the first gig that comes along.

If the agent comes back to you tell them politely to foxtrot oscar pointing out due to the long delay and the unsigned contract they showed that there was no intention on their part of you starting the contract.

They won't sue you as it would be a waste of money and time.

BTW Agents often don't sign contracts believing that an unsigned contract can't be enforced.

Bear in mind that it's not the agent who signs the contract - it'll usually be a director of the company. In my case, those directors are extremely busy, so sometimes, the backlog grows and it can take a while to get the paperwork through - it could be that this is the situation, however, the agent should be calling you and telling you that it's slightly delayed, and why.

[SueEllen]

I would just take and start the first gig that comes along.

If the agent comes back to you tell them politely to foxtrot oscar pointing out due to the long delay and the unsigned contract they showed that there was no intention on their part of you starting the contract.

They won't sue you as it would be a waste of money and time.

BTW Agents often don't sign contracts believing that an unsigned contract can't be enforced.

[northernladuk]

You are in a pretty sticky situation there. I forget the official status here. He has offered you a contract and you signed so from the agents perspective (wrongly) it is done deal but I believe it needs both to sign to be watertight but you get in to the horrible place of implied agreement. I am not sure if this works both ways. I know if you start working without signing you have accepted by implied acceptance.

Whatever the legal standpoint the agent will throw a hissy fit and be all over you like a rash if you give backword now. At the end of the day regardless of who or who hasn't signed it they can only enforce it by taking it through legal channels, something I think I can say will never happen. He can only sue you for losses incurred and as you haven't started there are no losses.

I think if you do get work and take it there will be handbags at 10 paces but nothing will come of it if you stick to your guns and weather the mess through. He will of course suddenly appear with a signed contract and try and tell you they signed it before you signed with the new client etc so will be a complete mess.

Just depends on how tough you are and whether you care you piss of the client/agent that you will no longer be doing any business with in the future (possibly).

[kingcook]

I had a contract agreed and signed weeks ago, to start in September.

The client wanted to delay start date by 3 weeks due to project slipage. Ok i said. A new contract schedule was written with a new start date (3 weeks added on).

I have signed and returned to the agent. However, the client has yet to sign any new paperwork with the agent. So i'm in limbo atm. TBH i smell the client trying to delay me again (or maybe bin me).

Due to this messing about i have started looking for other gigs, got a couple in the pipeline.

Any idea where i stand if the agent comes back with the signed paperwork and wants me to start in 3 weeks time?

If i accept another gig before this paperwork comes back signed, where do i stand? Is it possible to say no before the gig actually starts? (bearing in mind i have already signed)?