Reply to: The jump and the notice period.

[SueEllen]

Just do what 99% of other permies do in this position. Go on the sick with stress and they'll only be too pleased to let you go.

Bad idea as depending on the employer they would hassle you if you were signed off from work with a stress related illness so you wouldn't turn around, sue them and give them bad publicity.

[northernladuk]

I thought in the UK, contracts which impeded your ability to work were often unenforceable? Or if they pay you for gardening leave, does that make it OK?

I am not sure about that, handcuff clauses are enforceable within reason? I guess if you did argue in court you could be right. In my friends case they pointed out to him that even though he is on gardening leave he needs to be available to them during the period up to official release of contract which meant he couldn't work anywhere else so he complied without fighting it too much just for an easy life.

[Wobblyheed]

Hi SueEllen,

I'm in a bit of problem regarding my notice period. My company requires 3 months, and I've just agreed to a contract with a 3 week notice period, hoping my Boss would let me go, as some others left.

But I've received a letter for Breach of Contract threatening legal action and saying I shouldnt work for any other firm for the next 3 months, and they're asking me to sign it.

My questions:
1. What are the implications if I sign/dont sign the letter?
2. What legal action could they take against me (based on experience). I am ok with them withholding my pay, but am scared of court proceedings or them preventing me from starting another job.
3. Are you aware of any damage figures from experience? I make 42k per annum.

Thanks. Please reply as soon as possible.

Just do what 99% of other permies do in this position. Go on the sick with stress and they'll only be too pleased to let you go.

[JamJarST]

I thought in the UK, contracts which impeded your ability to work were often unenforceable? Or if they pay you for gardening leave, does that make it OK?

Yes I think that is exactly what makes it OK. Technically whilst on gardening leave you are employed so they aren't restricting you from working if you see what I mean.

[d000hg]

It is quite likely if you have a 3 month notice that you also have something in your contract about working for other companies while employed at your perm or during gardening/notice period. If that is the case you are screwed. You cannot start with the new company at all. In my experience they will enforce this if they chose. A pal of mine was in your exact same situation except his boss knew who he was going to work for. His existing company rang the new place up notifying them of the situation and the impending situation and the new company dropped him like a rock. The also got the company lawyer to write to him outlining the situation so he had to just sit and wait for the 3 months to pass.

I thought in the UK, contracts which impeded your ability to work were often unenforceable? Or if they pay you for gardening leave, does that make it OK?

[SueEllen]

Due to my last permanent employment experience, and talking to a few others over the years including this year, I have to agree with Wanderer.

I should add if the 3 month notice period is clearly stated and enforceable in your contract there should be no reason for them to make you sign an additional letter.

I personally know accountants and lawyers who were on that notice period for a large accountancy and legal firm. None of them signed an additional letter when they handed in their notice even those who argued and lost about leaving early before their notice period was up.

The fact that others were allowed to leave before their notice period was up helps your cause particularly if you can remember their names, and if you can contact at least two of them doing the same job as you who would be happy to help you out.

To get a union to help you it tends to be better if are working for a private company that doesn't have good union representation for the union, and it also helps if you know and can take time to personally contact the regional union reps.

If you are really struggling and cannot talk to a union rep or talk to one and s/he is full of tulip then contact an employment lawyer and ask for a free 30 minute consultation.

Either way you need to be persistent and not give up on the first phone call when you talk to people. People are busy and the cases that need the most help are discrimination cases.

If the company withholds your pay then find out the rules to follow to take them to an employment tribunal. They are legally not allowed to withhold your pay like that. And apparently the case is a really easy tribunal one you can do yourself if you read up on it.

Suing you for breach of contract is a separate issue. And to be honest unless they are a decent size company with a fund they keep for legal fees it's not worth suing you.

[Wanderer]

I don't know how much use a union rep or CAB are?

Union reps tend to ask difficult questions like "How come this guy is being held to 3 months notice when these other 5 people were let go with less than 1 month's notice?". If you get into a room with no one to represent you then they will feed you all sorts of bulltulip (and deny it later). I've seen people who I thought were bang to rights take a rep into a room who utterly destroys the managers case against the employee.

I've also seen union reps take up cases of non union members, ostensibly because they want to clarify the situation for the benefit of their members who may end up in a similar situation at some time in the future.

He is clearly in breach and is going to have to take what is coming IMO.

It's always worth getting advice from people who have dealt with these type of cases to see where you stand rather than presuming that you have to bend over and take it.

[northernladuk]

1. Signing the letter will almost certainly be a bad idea. Don't do it unless you have taken legal advice. I really can't see how it would help your case.

It is quite likely if you have a 3 month notice that you also have something in your contract about working for other companies while employed at your perm or during gardening/notice period. If that is the case you are screwed. You cannot start with the new company at all. In my experience they will enforce this if they chose. A pal of mine was in your exact same situation except his boss knew who he was going to work for. His existing company rang the new place up notifying them of the situation and the impending situation and the new company dropped him like a rock. The also got the company lawyer to write to him outlining the situation so he had to just sit and wait for the 3 months to pass.

2. You could argue that a 3 month notice period is unreasonable and that they can't hold you to it.

No you can't. 3 months is a reasonable amount of time and he also signed up to it so is screwed. The only arguing he could do is through a solicitor which would take more than 3 months to do

3. If you were paid £250k/year as a very high level board member then perhaps there such a long notice period would be reasonable but for a mid level professional like yourself, notice periods of 3 months are negotiated down to 1 month provided you could do a quick and clean handover.

3 months is more common now than it ever was IMO. I have only ever been on one 3 monther but at least 2 friends of mine on around £50k are on them. To be fair they do work for smallish companies with very few people doing each job.

If they keep talking about legal action then tell them that if they don't pay you for time worked then you will take them to an employment tribunal and they can present their case there.

I can't see them witholding pay, that is clearly illegal and don't think they would be that stupid. Might try it on but think they would buckle. Threatening them while he is in breach isn't a good idea though. They hold all the cards at that moment.

I don't know how much use a union rep or CAB are? He is clearly in breach and is going to have to take what is coming IMO. If they remind him that he cannot work duing the 3 months he is still in contract (on unpaid gardening leave) there is nothing he can do about it? IMO the OP's options are to comply for an easy life or chance it and go ahead with the contract and just pray to god the company don't want to pursue this. In my mates case he folded. He now has a good job and is happy. So it cost him a 2 months pay but didn't have 6 months legal heartache.

You don't screw companies over by breaching contract and expect to walk away scott free IMO.

[Wanderer]

My questions:
1. What are the implications if I sign/dont sign the letter?
2. What legal action could they take against me (based on experience). I am ok with them withholding my pay, but am scared of court proceedings or them preventing me from starting another job.
3. Are you aware of any damage figures from experience? I make 42k per annum.

1. Signing the letter will almost certainly be a bad idea. Don't do it unless you have taken legal advice. I really can't see how it would help your case.

2. You could argue that a 3 month notice period is unreasonable and that they can't hold you to it.

3. If you were paid £250k/year as a very high level board member then perhaps there such a long notice period would be reasonable but for a mid level professional like yourself, notice periods of 3 months are negotiated down to 1 month provided you could do a quick and clean handover.

If they keep talking about legal action then tell them that if they don't pay you for time worked then you will take them to an employment tribunal and they can present their case there.

However, I strongly suggest that you speak to your Union Rep if you have one even if you are not a union member - you may be able to join or they may take up the case to "clarify" the situation for other workers who are members. The Citizens Advice Bureau may also be able to give some proper advice. If both of these fail then you could get a solicitor involved though this could start costing a lot of money.

[retrograde]

Need help regarding Notice period breach

Hi SueEllen,

I'm in a bit of problem regarding my notice period. My company requires 3 months, and I've just agreed to a contract with a 3 week notice period, hoping my Boss would let me go, as some others left.

But I've received a letter for Breach of Contract threatening legal action and saying I shouldnt work for any other firm for the next 3 months, and they're asking me to sign it.

My questions:
1. What are the implications if I sign/dont sign the letter?
2. What legal action could they take against me (based on experience). I am ok with them withholding my pay, but am scared of court proceedings or them preventing me from starting another job.
3. Are you aware of any damage figures from experience? I make 42k per annum.

Thanks. Please reply as soon as possible.

If you are going to be a contractor you have to get a hard skin.

Have a read of the http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...eferences.html to see some of the tulip you will have to put up with.

BTW just tell agencies your permie manager doesn't give personal references out on the phone, and they have to talk to HR. You may as well not annoy him/her by giving their name out to be hassled.

[SueEllen]

Bit uncalled for, I have read the PCG stuff and searched for this question. I find the search facility limiting and not very user friendly.

If you are going to be a contractor you have to get a hard skin.

Have a read of the http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...eferences.html to see some of the tulip you will have to put up with.

BTW just tell agencies your permie manager doesn't give personal references out on the phone, and they have to talk to HR. You may as well not annoy him/her by giving their name out to be hassled.

[Scotgal]

Everything depends.

I worked a short notice period then had about 3 weeks before I secured a contract.

There as I've met others who have been made redundant, others who managed to secure a role then give in their notice, others who managed to cut their notice period down by sweet talking their boss, others who just walked out of their job......

As long as you have sufficient savings to last you a few months then you can just hand your notice in.

In the meantime to find out more (and to avoid annoying people on this board) have a good read of the first timers section (CUK Navigation panel on the right hand side) and a good read of the PCG guide to contracting.

Also when you think of a question come back here and use the search facility to find the answer as the question has probably been answered before. If the answer makes no sense then link to the previous thread and ask a question. We don't bite but are quite abrupt in our answers.

Bit uncalled for, I have read the PCG stuff and searched for this question. I find the search facility limiting and not very user friendly.

[SueEllen]

Thanks for the answers guys, very much appreciated. Regarding the annual leave, I had some carried over from last year. I could probably just hand in my notice and then look once im finished like you nothernladuk, I don't have a lot of responsibilities, no family, single guy living in my rented flat. Well I suppose luck favours the brave.

Everything depends.

I worked a short notice period then had about 3 weeks before I secured a contract.

There as I've met others who have been made redundant, others who managed to secure a role then give in their notice, others who managed to cut their notice period down by sweet talking their boss, others who just walked out of their job......

As long as you have sufficient savings to last you a few months then you can just hand your notice in.

In the meantime to find out more (and to avoid annoying people on this board) have a good read of the first timers section (CUK Navigation panel on the right hand side) and a good read of the PCG guide to contracting.

Also when you think of a question come back here and use the search facility to find the answer as the question has probably been answered before. If the answer makes no sense then link to the previous thread and ask a question. We don't bite but are quite abrupt in our answers.

[northernladuk]

Not sure what this means, is this referring to me?

No it doesn't, don't worry about it.

[Scotgal]

Thanks to the tit that neg repped me signing it MF. MF repped me not an hour prior so cannot have been him. Neg repping for no reason and false signing is cheap.

Not sure what this means, is this referring to me?