Reply to: What agents really think of IT contractors

[stek]

On the whole I appreciate agents despite some of the obvious tactics they use, I certainly couldn't call clientco and waffle - I'm an expert in Unix virtualisation and whilst I come across well in interviews cos I'm affable, I know I can't sell myself. Agents do that for me.

Having said that, the OP's agent did come across as a total dick, and I would twat him as an ex member of BWFC MCB. Only two fights tho, one I lost (Everton) and the other (Sheffield United) was a draw...

The big fear for agents must be that we geeks become self-aware and start selling ourselves and destroying the KidAgentHood.

Geekery, I say unto thee, discard thy pony tails, remove thy sandals, delete thy Linux wallpapers of steam engines (Mallett Compounds as well and all forms of Beyer-Garratt) and not partake of real ale at lunchtime (dinnertime if a Northerner). Sell, sell, sell....

PM'ery, just carry on as normal and get lied to by us geeks, you'll never learn....

BA'ery, not quite sure what you actually do..

Technical/Solution/Enterprise Architect'ery, do your thing, Microsoft Cunning Planner in Visio, design a shed and be proper Architect with actual Lego experience...

Remember, 'agent' is one space bar hit from 'A Gent'. Hang on, that doesn't work, maybe we should call them 'Atwat'?

[terradev]

Lies and deceit

Oh and as a follow up ConSol partners have the REC logo on their website and they are not even members.

The point some of the people here are missing is it is companies like this that end up with a bunch of decent hard working contractors ending up unpaid wasting months chasing fees and ultimately getting shafted. By ignoring the problem you are just giving them free license to rip off someone else.

I like what I do for a living but if no one makes a stand contracting will dissappear and it will return to a permenant dominated market. These fools usually end up narcing off the clients as much as they do us. Each time they do it usually ends up with that company turning to a consultancy in an attempt to find some trust. Sure that consultancy is hiring contractors but I prefer working independently and not having another layer of agent creaming off the top.

By refusing to use these people we eventually remove them from the equation and like what has already been pointed out here there are usually other agents working on that client so you are not missing an opportunity you are just going through a more trustworthy channel.

[terradev]

And in reply

Perhaps I'm odd, but I won't work with people who upset me/annoy me/ or confront me like that - if they'll react to me like that, what potential damage could they do to my client?

Your definately not odd lol, I agree so why do you think this doesn't work the other way? I'm not bothered about losing this guy as a contact as I would never take a contract through him anyway. He'd be scamming me, ripping off the client I am working for and lying to cover his rear end. Not to mention holding back on paying and rate bumping the client while telling me sob stories. I mean it 100% I want to be taken off this companies contact list and I never want to deal with them again.

I'm not some noob programmer, I can pick my work to suit myself, I dont take the first thing offered.

Oh and as far as Business Development your missing the point. Agents don't reuse contractors very often so the business development is about their contacts for their benefit not ours. 90% of jobs are simple post on job website, contractor applies, cv goes over and interviews commence. All the agent does is post the advert, email route the cvs, and take the money. Its a mind boggling feat of propaganda that businesses believe agents actually know a bunch of contractors and are wooing the best for them, most dont even read the cvs through.

[DodgyAgent]

However, the saying goes "nobs get jobs" - and whilst this kid is undoubtedly a nob, the reality is, that he may well have a job - one that you want potentially, a long way in the future.

Perhaps I'm odd, but I won't work with people who upset me/annoy me/ or confront me like that - if they'll react to me like that, what potential damage could they do to my client?

.

the chances of him having a job at all (even for himself) are utterly remote, as for you being odd you are spot on.

[thunderlizard]

And given what contractors earn do you think anyone is going to look upon them as exploited "victims"

The 2003 Agencies legislation did exactly that, though they weren't its intended beneficiary. So would all the other bits of temporary workers' legislation, if it weren't for the efforts of PCG et al.

[The Agents View]

My third point refutes your claim completely. Anyway I will repeat it so that you can understand; No agent/agency would be stupid enough to not put a contractor up for a job for which that contractor is eminently suitable, just because he has had an argument with that contractor in the past.

My fourth point is that if a recruitment agency behaves so unprofessionally towards contractors as it did i.e instead of rising above the confrontation, then it is reasonable to assume that the agency/spiv earning £80K per annum will not have any influence with any client either now or in the future.

Which brings me to point 5 which is that these things work both ways. Why insult someone who is in your business who may one day be a client, or at least be privvy to knowing where business opportunities may lay?

I think the agent has more to lose by annoying the contractor than the other way round.

Recruitment agents react to the needs of the clients and put buyers in direct contact with sellers. There are more agents than you can shake a stick at and agencies do not shape or control the market in any way. You seem to believe arrogantly that you/recruitment are somehow indispensable. If your agency and my agency packed up tomorrow it would make not the slightest difference to the market.

Get back under your stone little man

I'm don't disagree with you - the agent is an idiot for sending a response, but the contractor is just as bad, for taking offence to an email like that. Especially in that manner.

However, the saying goes "nobs get jobs" - and whilst this kid is undoubtedly a nob, the reality is, that he may well have a job - one that you want potentially, a long way in the future.

Perhaps I'm odd, but I won't work with people who upset me/annoy me/ or confront me like that - if they'll react to me like that, what potential damage could they do to my client?

And no - we don't always update our records - but if it's someone who's done something like that, I'd undoubtedly remember the name for a good while.

[RichardCranium]

Sods law dictates that the moment you see a contract which you REALLY want, the person between you and the opportunity, will be the person you've just dealt with unprofessionally.

The worlds a small place.

You work very hard to try to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt and try to convince the newbies and naive that we should worship you agents and be nice to you.

For the record, the reality is that you post bollocks.

a) The sort of scumbag agent that is so excessively unprofessional that it makes a contractor flare up in anger is the sort of scumbag agent who lets it just wash over them.

b) And do you really take the time to update your records with each instance of an applicant reacting badly to your behaviour? I don't think so.

c) And it has also been my experience that agents and resourcers speak to so many people in a day that an hour after a call, they have forgotten who they have spoken to.

d) A real salesman would still do business with someone who was previously upset if it will result in commission.

[DodgyAgent]

I see your point.
But agents move businesses.
In the same way as you should never burn bridges with an employer, you should also never burn bridges with those who can find you work. Next week he could be working for a massive agency, running massive PSLs.

Sods law dictates that the moment you see a contract which you REALLY want, the person between you and the opportunity, will be the person you've just dealt with unprofessionally.

The worlds a small place.

My third point refutes your claim completely. Anyway I will repeat it so that you can understand; No agent/agency would be stupid enough to not put a contractor up for a job for which that contractor is eminently suitable, just because he has had an argument with that contractor in the past.

My fourth point is that if a recruitment agency behaves so unprofessionally towards contractors as it did i.e instead of rising above the confrontation, then it is reasonable to assume that the agency/spiv earning £80K per annum will not have any influence with any client either now or in the future.

Which brings me to point 5 which is that these things work both ways. Why insult someone who is in your business who may one day be a client, or at least be privvy to knowing where business opportunities may lay?

I think the agent has more to lose by annoying the contractor than the other way round.

Recruitment agents react to the needs of the clients and put buyers in direct contact with sellers. There are more agents than you can shake a stick at and agencies do not shape or control the market in any way. You seem to believe arrogantly that you/recruitment are somehow indispensable. If your agency and my agency packed up tomorrow it would make not the slightest difference to the market.

Get back under your stone little man

[MarillionFan]

I see your point.
But agents move businesses.
In the same way as you should never burn bridges with an employer, you should also never burn bridges with those who can find you work. Next week he could be working for a massive agency, running massive PSLs.

Sods law dictates that the moment you see a contract which you REALLY want, the person between you and the opportunity, will be the person you've just dealt with unprofessionally.

The worlds a small place.

The ancient karmic law of 'what goes around, comes around'

[The Agents View]

Let us have a look at this dubious argument that "you are narrowing your pool of potential contracts"

firstly this company or individual agent is not on any PSLs so is not servicing a client with a PSL list..So given that almost all the large corporations in Europe now have PSLs who in turn probably employ between them over 70% of all contractors.. you are not missing much there.

Secondly there is likely to be more than one agency servicing any one client/job at a time, and as this guy is not on a PSL (why else is he touting for new clients) his clients will be doing business with whoever comes up with the person they need. As there are about 5000 agencies this effectively means that his client is likely to deal with anyone.. so you are not missing out there and because of the perfect market that operates in our industry the job will gravitate towards you without you having to blink.

Thirdly when it comes to it and you are a suitable fit for the job agents have no principles and although most are pretty thick they will not compromise an opportunity of a sale just because a contractor has annoyed them in the past. If you are the right contractor for the job at the right time right place the agent will be all over you like a cheap suit for fear of you being put forward by a competitor.

in conclusion this threat of "having one less contact in the market" is utter bo**ocks.

I see your point.
But agents move businesses.
In the same way as you should never burn bridges with an employer, you should also never burn bridges with those who can find you work. Next week he could be working for a massive agency, running massive PSLs.

Sods law dictates that the moment you see a contract which you REALLY want, the person between you and the opportunity, will be the person you've just dealt with unprofessionally.

The worlds a small place.

[VirtualMonkey]

It is true that some agents are fly by night cocksockets of the first order, and this guy appears to be one of them. Of course they aren't all like that but it's good to avoid the ones that are.

That's a phrase that's definitely being banked for future use...quality!

[eek]

So the client pays the same and you supply a bob who can't tell a server from his tiffin box just so you can make a big fat profit.

The undercutting has been instigated by you for your gain and no-one else’s, don't expect to win any friends on here with that sort of practice.

AS DA says above the Bob's come as a job lot. They basically offer a lower price and remove the agency from the equation.

The problem then is that the contractor plus agency price needs to compete against the all in Bob price and that is 1 reason for the low rates.

[DodgyAgent]

So the client pays the same and you supply a bob who can't tell a server from his tiffin box just so you can make a big fat profit.

The undercutting has been instigated by you for your gain and no-one else’s, don't expect to win any friends on here with that sort of practice.

If only that were the case. If the opportunity to place low cost people from abroad were an option then yes I would take it. However these people are being sourced and placed by the likes of Wipro, Infosys, tata et al. It is not just the contractors that have been edged out but the agencies too.

Engology.com,Engineer Azim Hasham Premji,Billionaire,Chairman of Wipro Corporation

[gingerjedi]

I think you have been undercut by the Bobs which is what has happened to most of the "grunts" in the contracting market

So the client pays the same and you supply a bob who can't tell a server from his tiffin box just so you can make a big fat profit.

The undercutting has been instigated by you for your gain and no-one else’s, don't expect to win any friends on here with that sort of practice.

[doodab]

It is true that some agents are fly by night cocksockets of the first order, and this guy appears to be one of them. Of course they aren't all like that but it's good to avoid the ones that are.