Reply to: If your role was being offshored

[xchaotic]

small businesses buck the offshoring trend

Just wait it out - soon enough India will be outsourcing to "cheap" Europe...
More seriously focus on things that are not easily outsourced far away, simple, eh?

[Ignis Fatuus]

You should try burning bridges, its very satisfying. If people treat you badly, acting all "professional" just validates their behaviour, do you want to be a door mat?

A life lived in fear is a life half-lived. Tell 'em to shove it.

[escapeUK]

You should try burning bridges, its very satisfying. If people treat you badly, acting all "professional" just validates their behaviour, do you want to be a door mat?

[MarillionFan]

would you offer to work off client site, say at home, for a lower rate? And what rate - if your daily rate is say £500, would you take £150/£200/£250 to work at home each day?

I know it's a wide angled question but I'm just trying to work out :
(a) if it's financially worthwhile .... and
(b) whether the client would actually go for this, or still prefer to offshore to their main centre in India

Any ideas or opinions would be welcome, bearing in mind that this post is not in General!

If your role was being offshored, it means that you are replaceable. In which case, forget dropping your rate and start cross training into another area.

If it's pure development or a skill which is easily learned & requires no 'intelligence' then you seriously need to make a move horizontally. You will never compete on skills alone.

[Wanderer]

I had my last permie job off shored, it was pretty soul destroying to see a bunch of people who really had no clue try to take on what our team had built up over many years, you know they are just going to run it into the ground.

Any ideas or opinions would be welcome

Do exactly what they ask you to do, document exactly what they ask you to (and no more) then leave. It will take a year or so of blundering around before they figure out that their cheap offshoring deal is actually giving them pretty rubbish results. By that time, the one who engineered the deal will have taken his fat bonus for cutting costs and done a runner too.

Bottom line is: Your job is gone, you need to find a new one.

For work from home contracts, I'd offer a 10% discount off my standard rate. I guess everyone's different on this.

[perplexed]

End of the day, if the role is being offshored, it's almost certainly down to the head bean counters, not people you work with ( unless you work with the head bean counters ).

Be professional, write that document, means you can then leave without burning any bridges.

When the offshoring inevitably fails, then a) you've still got a positive relationship for the future and b) people you work with directly will almost certainly have a high regard for your abilities. Just because they happen to work at Client XXX now doesn't mean they always will - so should your CV ever cross their paths again, could well benefit you with other roles elsewhere.

[2BIT]

Seriously don't tell them anything and walk around with a smile.

Document your work using the best English possible - remember words in English have multiple meanings so writing a very comprehensive and long document would be worthwhile - then let them get on with it.

In 2 years time when the work is screwed up and the person who said off-shoring was a good idea has moved on, they will be seeking you or someone else to sort out the mess.

I wouldn't do anything to purposely muddy the waters, if they can manage fair play if they can't then it was kind of predictable, this is why I suggested giving the client the doc, that way they could agree that it has the coverage and is comprehensive enough - don't risk damaging your reputation

if the off-shore peeps are like the guys I've worked with they have required very strict parameters to work within, they've needed heavily scripted processes and have been unable to deviate or use any initiative - therefore providing comprehensive docs will do good for your rep but won't be a magic bullet for the off-shore peeps but if they do manage then fair play you'll be long gone!

[SueEllen]

This is kind of what I'm thinking too, but I want to be as professional as possible. It's true that clients have no responsibility towards us, and we shouldn't expect it anyway. I just know that they are making the wrong decision because they don't know how much work I cover, and professionally I feel obliged to do something about that.

Seriously don't tell them anything and walk around with a smile.

Document your work using the best English possible - remember words in English have multiple meanings so writing a very comprehensive and long document would be worthwhile - then let them get on with it.

In 2 years time when the work is screwed up and the person who said off-shoring was a good idea has moved on, they will be seeking you or someone else to sort out the mess.

[TinTrump]

I think it's noble and correct to take that professional attitude, and also to work out what is financially viable.

But the services you provide appear now to have been undercut in terms of cost by a competitor. As you say, the company doesn't appreciate the extent of the work you provide so let them discover that after you've left.

You have to happy with the terms your business operates on. Yesterday I was called about a role with a company I contracted at 3+ years ago. The offer was working as an employed consultant through an IT outsourcing company, at practically half the previous rate. My answer was no. In another month or 2 I might have to accept such a deal but for now I can afford to decline, and am happy to do so.

[2BIT]

This is kind of what I'm thinking too, but I want to be as professional as possible. It's true that clients have no responsibility towards us, and we shouldn't expect it anyway. I just know that they are making the wrong decision because they don't know how much work I cover, and professionally I feel obliged to do something about that.

if it was me I would tell them that to assist in a smooth transition you are going to document your roles and responsibilities and that you feel they should really use that doc to ensure coverage with the new staff - then make sure your documentation is as comprehensive as possible and your dev environment/work in progress is in good shape

if the new peeps are good they'll be able to take over pretty easily (even if they need two or more peeps to cover it all) and the client gets what they want - your contract would have ended anyway and they won't need you back so end of.

if they aren't any good then at least you know it wasn't the handover that was the problem, the client may notice the difference in the quality of your work and if it all comes to a head (maybe over a couple of years) may get you back in - either way you should be out there earning safe in the knowledge that you left the role in good shape

unless I really liked the client I would probably just get my house in order and move on, they can sort out the new peeps, the r&r and the coverage

[Brussels Slumdog]

On site or off site

would you offer to work off client site, say at home, for a lower rate? And what rate - if your daily rate is say £500, would you take £150/£200/£250 to work at home each day?

!

My average daily rate of £500 is based on £350 + £150 travel expenses
The reason the client is prepared to pay £500 is due to the fact he requires me to be on site. If the client did not require my presence then he would simply hire the cheapest and as I don't pay Indian social security at 0% then I have no chance of competing with offshore rates. I know some companies who are switching to the Philippines as the Indians are becoming to expensive

[pmeswani]

This is kind of what I'm thinking too, but I want to be as professional as possible. It's true that clients have no responsibility towards us, and we shouldn't expect it anyway. I just know that they are making the wrong decision because they don't know how much work I cover, and professionally I feel obliged to do something about that.

Personally, I would just let nature take its own course. If the client realises they screwed up by off-shoring it to wherever it is, they will be quick on the phone to ask you back.

Don't rock the boat by telling them that they are making a mistake. You telling them that they are making the wrong decision is effectively telling them that they shouldn't take you back, no matter how right you are.

[ChimpMaster]

not financially worthwhile as you could earn lots more not working from home, client wont care unless you can undercut the off-shorers and even then are unlikely to go for it

go get another contract and leave the current one as soon as poss - you never know the off-shorers may not be up to scratch and you may get an offer for a contract to sort out the problems- if by that time they have got rid of the office space dedicated to your team you could work from home at your normal rate

guess what I'm trying to say is don't try and do the client any favours - if they need you back it will on your terms if they don't then no probs you would have eventually lost the contract anyway

This is kind of what I'm thinking too, but I want to be as professional as possible. It's true that clients have no responsibility towards us, and we shouldn't expect it anyway. I just know that they are making the wrong decision because they don't know how much work I cover, and professionally I feel obliged to do something about that.

[2BIT]

would you offer to work off client site, say at home, for a lower rate? And what rate - if your daily rate is say £500, would you take £150/£200/£250 to work at home each day?

I know it's a wide angled question but I'm just trying to work out :
(a) if it's financially worthwhile .... and
(b) whether the client would actually go for this, or still prefer to offshore to their main centre in India

Any ideas or opinions would be welcome, bearing in mind that this post is not in General!

not financially worthwhile as you could earn lots more not working from home, client wont care unless you can undercut the off-shorers and even then are unlikely to go for it

go get another contract and leave the current one as soon as poss - you never know the off-shorers may not be up to scratch and you may get an offer for a contract to sort out the problems- if by that time they have got rid of the office space dedicated to your team you could work from home at your normal rate

guess what I'm trying to say is don't try and do the client any favours - if they need you back it will on your terms if they don't then no probs you would have eventually lost the contract anyway

[amcdonald]

I would brown up, change my name to bob shawaddywady and start looking for rental properties in bangalore

Dik tulips would be a suitably Indian name that wouldn't arouse suspicion