Capital International HR Solutions Ltd

[malvolio]

Mailman, that's complete {rude word deleted}... A small history lesson:

The Agency Regs wee brought in to protect proper agency temps - the people who do secretarial work for Office Angels and have no aspiration to run their own business in any way shape or form, that sort of thing. However, the draft was so poor that it effectively made the average freelance incapable of working other than as an employee of the agency - which even you cannot accept as being desirable. Therefore the ability to opt out of the regulations in their entirety was added.

The net result is that is you can opt in - i.e. agree to be covered by the regulations in your current engagement, in which case the agency cannot refuse to pay you because they haven't been paid themselves and there is a limit on handcuff clauses (plus a lot of other detail you seem to want to ignore). Opt out and you lose those "features" which might seem a good idea on the face of it. However, opt out and you will de-risk the agency's involvement so you should be able to get better contractual terms and even a reduction in their margin. Opt-in and the useful anti-IR35 clauses such as MOO cannot apply and so become rather harder to prove if you are challenged on IR35 by Hector.

Opting either way is nothing to do with IR35, and only people who pretend to be contractors while demanding employee-like protection would fail to understand that.

And finally, the PCG does not represent IT people, it represents freelancers. There are a significant number of their members who would be hurt financially if they had to comply with the Agency Regulations. There are a larger number who, like me, who really don't want or need the "protection" the regs are intended to provide and prefer to plough their own furrough and not be dependent on the goodwill of HMG or the agencies.

So if you want the comfort factor they seem to provide (which doesn't exist, but don't worry about it overmuch) then put your thumb back in your mouth and opt-in. Personally, I see greater advantages to opting out.

[Mailman]

If you opt out you are basically telling agents they can do what they please with your money.

If you opt in then your money is protected by law (they cannot with hold money from you for any reason, they can delay while they check timesheets etc but they cannot with hold that money from you).

Some contractors are under the mistaken idea that if you are opted in you are not a real contractor and that some how Gordo will see you being opted in as being admission that you are caught in an IR35 contract.

Reality is different however. Being opted in or out or shake it all about is not an indication of you being caught in an IR35 contract.

But then again, we have the wonderfil PCG to thank for allowing agents this lovely little loophole to force contractors to opt out. After all, according to the PCG we can trust agents!

Mailman

[Chappo]

can anyone explaing opt-out/opt in business? - or point me in the right direction? -

[errorista]

yeah right!

So what are the 'Other computer related services'?

Are these the services that I as a contractor offer?

So I go to my competition and tell em my business?

Yeah right!

reference = client I may wish to sell to again in the future.

WebCheck
7260 - Other computer related activities
7450 - Labour recruitment

error

[boredsenseless]

So...? Is it too difficult to include an indication that you wish to opt-out at this time in your initial response to the agency?

In law once you've met with the client its too late to choose, you have to state (or by not stating accept the defacto situation of opting-in) your preference before the initial introduction.

Although so long as all are happy I'm sure a couple of pre-dated letters could resolve the situation afterwards

[malvolio]

So...? Is it too difficult to include an indication that you wish to opt-out at this time in your initial response to the agency?

[tim123]

The problem with this opting out malarkey is that you can't do it once you have been introduced to the client.

Whilst it is correct to say that the agent can't make you opt out, you do have to make the decision before the the agent represents you to the client.

tim

[OrangeHopper]

Scots went for an interview in Bogs Hole once.

Didn't take the jobs because it was too warm for him.

[malvolio]

You can opt out immediately and decide to opt in at any point up to actually starting work. So if you think opting in is a good idea (it isn't, but don't worry about it), that is the way to play it.

[OrangeHopper]

Ah, Bogs Hole, lovely place.

[peakster]

Thanks Tim, Denny.

I had already decided on not making a choice with the opt-in/opt-out yet until a got close to the client. As I've only been contracting abroad I've not had to worry about this, I've just kept a loose eye on this situation.

I guess it's time to read the 53 page DTI "leaflet" on the regulations!

[Denny]

Anyone had experience of these chaps at Capital International. I've contacted them about a couple of positions, and already they're are telling me that it's best I sign the "opt-out" form, and that they need 2 references.

I've already told them no references unless the client asks me specifically, but already they're irritating me.

No agency can force contractors to opt out. Just tell them you haven't decided yet, much depends on the on-site working conditions or else, if you fear not being represented if you say that, tell them you 'intend 'to opt out in writing but without committing yourself by signing the form. After the gig is in the bag you can them remain opted in if you choose to.

Agencies are doing this routinely. Their opted out forms are also carefully worded to state on it that you are opting out voluntarily when they are covertly trying to force you to by presenting you with this option as if its a condition of representation. I just ignore my forms if I get sent them and ask the recruiter to confirm in writing that they've forwarded my details to the client instead. No client is bothered about opting in or out. It's got nothing to do with them.

[tim123]

Anyone had experience of these chaps at Capital International. I've contacted them about a couple of positions, and already they're are telling me that it's best I sign the "opt-out" form, and that they need 2 references.

I've already told them no references unless the client asks me specifically, but already they're irritating me.

of Burgess Hill?

Yeh, I've worked with them twice. Before you (had to) opt-out though. Never been hassled for refs.

tim

[peakster]

Anyone had experience of these chaps at Capital International. I've contacted them about a couple of positions, and already they're are telling me that it's best I sign the "opt-out" form, and that they need 2 references.

I've already told them no references unless the client asks me specifically, but already they're irritating me.