Billing for weekends away....

[craig1]

Hotels and flights should be covered. See if client can book hotel as they will usually have agreements with Hilton, Marriott etc that means the rate is a lot less. Also look to see how much the cost is. 4 weeks away in asia can easily burn £1500 a week onto a credit card for just the hotel alone. If its 4 weeks in the same hotel I'd negotiate with the hotel and ask for a invoice direct to client co.

I have in my standard consultancy contract that any overnight stay rates are automatically considered "reasonable" to the amount of the closest Marriott Hotel standard room B&B rate plus evening subsistence OR Marriott Hotel DB&B without evening subsistence. Saves any messing around when it comes to invoicing and approving acceptable rates plus it encourages them to let me use their negotiated cheap rates as these often come with the "priority free upgrade" box ticked on the local Marriott system.

[Sockpuppet]

Billing for weekends is laughable to be honest unless some business is actually being conducted.

I think it depends on the relationship.

Agree that all travel days are billable (unless this is your regular commute) but special travel is certainly billable regardless of if you work or not as they are asking you to do it.

Hotels and flights should be covered. See if client can book hotel as they will usually have agreements with Hilton, Marriott etc that means the rate is a lot less. Also look to see how much the cost is. 4 weeks away in asia can easily burn £1500 a week onto a credit card for just the hotel alone. If its 4 weeks in the same hotel I'd negotiate with the hotel and ask for a invoice direct to client co.

Are you going to work weekend? Like AQ said unless your working you may not want to invoice. Though depends on the ballache factor your are going to be away from home for 4 weeks.

Don't forget to include incidentals that you will spend such as cleaning clothes, taxis, wifi access at hotel, phone calls etc as these are all going to add up and cost more.

[AnthonyQuinn]

I travelled extensively for my last client for over a period of 5 years. But my experience is of only one client. The rules followed were as follows.

1. You will travel on a weekday (unless there are exceptions due to flight schedules).
2. No billing for weekends.
3. Hotel, Flight and expenses covered (Upto £28 of subsistence expenses a day)

Billing for weekends is laughable to be honest unless some business is actually being conducted.

and the day rate should stay the same. Neither reduce nor increase

[AnthonyQuinn]

I travelled extensively for my last client for over a period of 5 years. But my experience is of only one client. The rules followed were as follows.

1. You will travel on a weekday (unless there are exceptions due to flight schedules).
2. No billing for weekends.
3. Hotel, Flight and expenses covered (Upto £28 of subsistence expenses a day)

Billing for weekends is laughable to be honest unless some business is actually being conducted.

[craig1]

I've not had a single client to date grumble about signing timesheets for weekend work where I've had to stay away, even if I've not been physically working on a client site. Why should the client get free time from me unless it's specifically negotiated in the contract? A weekend away is a weekend lost, you work to live, not the other way around.

To Monobrow, your last sentence is exactly what I'm after. I expect a client to only send me to long-distance places if it's absolutely essential or if they've negotiated it in advance. I've had a few clients who expected me to fly internationally to attend meetings that could easily be done by a 30 minute teleconference, once I point to the contract and submit them a quote for the extra "work" they often realise that modern communications technology is actually a wonderful thing.

Except where it's my main working location I'll bill double time for any day I'm expected to stay away from home at the client's request; I have been negotiated down to time and a half on one but that's because I really wanted a very interesting bit of work. If I'm staying away because I've chosen to take a contract out of commuting distance then the time cost is my own and isn't the client's problem.

As an aside based on other comments: If I'm going abroad, I expect the client to purchase my tickets and state in the contract that any flight over 5 hours is business class. Why should I pay for it in advance? This one comes from brutal and nasty experiences of reclaiming expenses in the past. At Nortel Networks in the early 2000s I often had to wait 2 to 3 months to get paid back my very hefty travelling expenses for 2-3 return flights per week plus hotels and they refused to refund interest charges caused by their late payment.

[Kanye]

I know you are asking for feedback/views so I won't beat you up (too bad).. but honestly, you are an adult (I assume) and they are your client.. try speaking to them and asking them these questions directly instead of this forum.

FWIW, my 2 pence. I do this regularly, I put expenses on my personal debit card and claim them back through the clientco into my personal bank account.

I also only bill professional days for a professional days work. I would not expect to be paid for travelling, and if somebody billed me for that, whether a contractor or permie they wouldn't be travelling any time again soon.

Thanks. I just wanted to canvas feedback from more experienced contractors as I'm new to this game.

I personally would be annoyed if a contractor or permie asked me for the time to be paid for, but wondered what the 'professional approach' to this would be considering it does involve passing up other opportunities.

The fact there have been a variety of answers above shows that it is probably just worth speaking with the client. They may have a policy on this.

[northernladuk]

Travel days billable, otherwise weekends not billable. All expenses to be paid/reimbursed to my ltd co.

Ask your client first though...

Short and to the point and covers it for me. In all the contracts I have had that mentioned travel they have all forwarned me and made me aware some weekends away may be required. I knew it was expected and coming so take it as part of the daily routine. I can't moan about it after even though they told me.

Now if it was out of the blue, unexpected and I really didn't want to do it I would speak to my client but would have to be alot of it or really inconvenient. The odd weekend here or there I would swallow personally.

[PropertyCrashUK]

I would not expect to be paid for travelling, and if somebody billed me for that, whether a contractor or permie they wouldn't be travelling any time again soon.

You can get an awful lot of work done on a 12 - 13 hour flight to California or a similar long-haul so it is not uncommon to bill for that work.

[monobrow]

I have been asked to do 4 weeks in Asia on a London IBank contract. This will span 4 or possibly 5 weekends including travel at either end.

Would you expect all of the weekends to be billable? And if not, what about the 12 hour travel days which will take place on the first and last weekends?

I am going to assume expenses for hotel and food will covered (is this a safe assumption?), but what about the day rate?

I'm happy to go and not really looking to make a profit from the trip, but at the same time, looking at it from the 'I'm running a business perspective' this does take me away from some side projects I am running at weekends.

Any thoughts or direct experience appreciated.

I know you are asking for feedback/views so I won't beat you up (too bad).. but honestly, you are an adult (I assume) and they are your client.. try speaking to them and asking them these questions directly instead of this forum.

FWIW, my 2 pence. I do this regularly, I put expenses on my personal debit card and claim them back through the clientco into my personal bank account.

I also only bill professional days for a professional days work. I would not expect to be paid for travelling, and if somebody billed me for that, whether a contractor or permie they wouldn't be travelling any time again soon.

[PropertyCrashUK]

I think it depends on where you are going and what your relationship is with the guys who pays your invoices.

When I have worked away in similar circumstances I have always billed them for all the hotel and food costs, including the Saturday & Sunday, as if they expect me to be away for a number of weeks then they can't expect me to return home each Friday and back out each Monday.

Also, you often find that you end up spending some of those weekends with colleagues and end up talking business - depending on how much of this I did then I would or would not bill them. For example, if I had a chat for an hour over a barbie on the weekend I would not bill them... but if the barbie was an excuse for several hours of brain-storming then I would bill the day or X hours.

If I have gone somewhere I like - such as the States - then I try and focus on the weekends away as being a chance to do some sight-seeing so, as I said, I would expect them to pay my hotel accomodation, food costs and car hire but would use the time to go and do some sight-seeing on the weekend. I have never had a problem.

If I go somewhere bleak and miserable with nothing to do then I simply bill them for the weekend days.

I have sometimes got this agreed in advance and never had a problem.

[NotAllThere]

Travel days billable, otherwise weekends not billable. All expenses to be paid/reimbursed to my ltd co.

Ask your client first though...

[Zippy]

These are just my thoughts, as I don't have experience of working abroad as a contractor (plenty as a permie).

I would expect the client to pay your hotel and food expenses but clear that with them now. They may pay for it directly on a company credit card or you pay, get receipts and bill them on your usual invoice(this is what my OH had to do).
Bill them for the travel days.
Bill them half for the weekends.

Of course you could just ask the client what their expectations are? You might get nowt for the weekends or you might get a full day.
Worst case - it's a series of cheap mini-breaks.

[Kanye]

I have been asked to do 4 weeks in Asia on a London IBank contract. This will span 4 or possibly 5 weekends including travel at either end.

Would you expect all of the weekends to be billable? And if not, what about the 12 hour travel days which will take place on the first and last weekends?

I am going to assume expenses for hotel and food will covered (is this a safe assumption?), but what about the day rate?

I'm happy to go and not really looking to make a profit from the trip, but at the same time, looking at it from the 'I'm running a business perspective' this does take me away from some side projects I am running at weekends.

Any thoughts or direct experience appreciated.