Reply to: Fresh Graduate - opinions needed!

[RichardCranium]

A different answer for you to think about, presuming you're still on here.

I'm a Computer Science student due to graduate at the end of this year, and I hope to eventually be an IT contractor in the Investment Banking industry. I have done internships as a software engineer at a big software house, and as a business analyst at an IB, so I have some idea of what I can go into, and what it's like

So you'll have a degree in Computer Science. Whoopy doo. How do you expect that to differentiate you from the rest of the world with a degree?

The IT industry does not respect academic qualifications much, especially in the private sector. And since the current (and previous) government policy is that 50% of school leavers should have a degree (and a huge debt), you are not going to be standing out as anything special.

Why not stay on and get a Master's degree? Something relevant to the business sector you want to work in: banking.

Another option is to become a qualified accountant. Most serious IT systems boil down to being a financial system, yet there are very few accountancy-qualified IT professionals. The few I have met earn serious money because the accountants own the purse strings and they reward their own.

So, I suggest you should stay in college, maintain the professional contacts you have already made, and ask them what skills they would like to see in a fresh graduate and decide whether another year doing a Master's would be the best investment you could make at this point in your life.

You've got a plan so lay the best possible groundwork now once and for all by: keep on researching, keep making professional contacts, join the relevant professional bodies now while it is cheap (as a student) (ask for membership as Xmas presents - people love good ideas for Xmas presents like that when they know it can effect the rest of your life) and carry on drinking the cheap beer and shagging the cheap totty for another year.

And doing a 2nd degree once you have started work is far harder than you can currently imagine.

[Freamon]

To add to what everyone else has said, the most important part is that you enjoy what you're doing. So pick a route where you are pretty sure you'll enjoy it, or pick a route where you will get to try lots of different roles (maybe consulting? although any big company with a good graduate scheme would work).

Another thing - don't pick IB just because it's hot at the moment. In 5 years time when you want to take the next step up the pay ladder (or move into contracting), something else will be the hot area. Regulations coming down the track for IBs make this all the more likely IMO.

[northernladuk]

If the company has some social clubs/activities that you can participate in, do and choose wisely.

If you play your cards right you can socialise with the top-bods who can really help your career.


The most important question is What do you like doing?


There is no point going for roles that don't interest you or that you will struggle doing as you will detest going to work.

A better question is What is there out there that I might like doing. There is lots of talk about BA and techie roles. Aim higher. For every techie there are umpteen levels of management right up to the top man. They are all acheiveable overtime. Maybe you don't get solid experience in the first few years but you get an invaluable insight to the entire company which will open your eyes and hopefully peak your interest. There is a lot more to IT than the roles mentioned particularly here. Do the rotation, see what is out there and THEN decide what you like or want to do. Keep an open mind for now and then decide on your choice and path.

[SueEllen]

Thank you all for your replies! Some really good insights and points made for me to think about.

The reason I asked was that I have a few offers from IB grad schemes to start next year, and was considering my options, with a view to my long-term career. Although grad schemes are a good place to start out (name on the CV, training etc.), as someone mentioned you don't really gain much 'solid' experience in the first few years, as you are rotating around the company over different teams... but I guess that also has its advantages.

If the company has some social clubs/activities that you can participate in, do and choose wisely.

If you play your cards right you can socialise with the top-bods who can really help your career.

Also, I'm asked to give a preference for team/role, i.e. BA or Dev, and I was thinking what would be best long term... I prefer BA as it involves more interpersonal skills.. my only concern was that it's not technical enough and the skillset gained would be too general to be marketable to future employers... as opposed to developers who gain the specific technical expertise. Surely it's more competitive for the generalists to get jobs, and they would be the ones that are easily outsourced?

The most important question is What do you like doing?


There is no point going for roles that don't interest you or that you will struggle doing as you will detest going to work.

[nomadd]

...first, conduct yourself ethically...

Well, that's screwed the contractor part of his career, then.

[bux2011]

Thank you all for your replies! Some really good insights and points made for me to think about.

The reason I asked was that I have a few offers from IB grad schemes to start next year, and was considering my options, with a view to my long-term career. Although grad schemes are a good place to start out (name on the CV, training etc.), as someone mentioned you don't really gain much 'solid' experience in the first few years, as you are rotating around the company over different teams... but I guess that also has its advantages. Also, I'm asked to give a preference for team/role, i.e. BA or Dev, and I was thinking what would be best long term... I prefer BA as it involves more interpersonal skills.. my only concern was that it's not technical enough and the skillset gained would be too general to be marketable to future employers... as opposed to developers who gain the specific technical expertise. Surely it's more competitive for the generalists to get jobs, and they would be the ones that are easily outsourced?

I've seen that its easy for people to get pidgeonholed very quickly - so I want to make sure that I choose wisely on what I'm getting myself into... which is why I asked all the questions - and thanks for all your help with this!! Wish me luck!

[lightng]

As others have said, get experience first, conduct yourself ethically and build contacts. Degrees are only a foundation and are way too general to allow you to walk straight into a highly paid contract. That's despite the bulltulip your lecturers / course directors may have given to you.

Most new graduates have an over-inflated view of their worth - I know I did.

[northernladuk]

take this with a pinch of salt though, I'm only talking from my own experiences and have found the recent CS grads I've met to be very lacking in technical experience, entirely capable but needing the years experience you can only get from working

FTFY

[lukemg]

Some really good advice on here. Unless you love it, don't kill yourself to get the techie badges, these are likely to be on a downward slope from here as it's just too easy to shift elsewhere (and they WILL get better at doing it....eventually).
As mentioned grad schemes work and consultancy works too. Don't underestimate the impact of contacts you can make, lots of top level consultants move to big companies over time and you want to be on their list when they do. Consultant mate worked for a chap who moved to BP and hired him on contract at 850/day + expenses and friday WFH...

[2BIT]

Hi Everyone,


- go straight into contracting, or go on a graduate scheme at an IB? If the latter, how many years is ideal before starting to apply for contracts? how about technology consulting at a consultancy (e.g. deloitte, pwc, accenture)?


B

If you want to get the BA experience the consultancy route may be ok but in terms of sharpening your tech skills you may be better off as a perm junior dev, I think the consultancy model may not give you the room to develop your tech skills (unless it is a technology company), many consultancies use grads as grunts (but you will be well paid for your work)

I'd suggest doing 2-3 in enterprise IT as a junior dev
maybe a year or 2 in a consultancy to get your BA skills up to speed

then if you are really good you should be able to try the contractor market, you should spend this time getting as good as you possibly can so when you do start contracting you aren't out of your depth

I think if you went straight into contracting you may not have much luck getting contracts and may be out of your depth when you do

take this with a pinch of salt though, I'm only talking from my own experiences and have found the recent CS grads I've met to be very lacking in technical experience, entirely capable but needing the years experience you can only get from working

good luck!

[d000hg]

Graduate schema at IB is a good choice.

Definitely. IB is lucrative but traditionally a bit hard to break into since they tend to want people with IB experience. So getting in now is a good move, apart from anything else IBs are seen as hiring the best people so it will look good on your CV to have worked in one.

As a student this site isn't really aimed at you but I think you ask pretty well thought-out questions and seem to be approaching this in a sensible way.

Straight to contracting from graduation is a bad plan. If you can't get a placement in an IB, a job for a consultancy who works with IBs is a decent plan too because you'll still gain IB experience and be able to mention big-name banks when talking about past projects.

[northernladuk]

But remember your career may not end at coding or tech work, it depends on your outlook. Use the grad scheme and permie land to rise through the ranks and end in a middle to senior management position if that takes your fancy. Dropping out of permie land at some point would always be a good move but I would say try be the best you can first before you jump. Career progression in contracting can range from diffficult to non existent. Why aim for tech or BA roles if you believe you have the potential to be Programme Management or higher with a bit of work.

[Lolas Cat]

Graduate schema at IB is a good choice.

Developer of BA? Developers are easier to outsource offshore, so I'd go for BA.

[jmo21]

I agree with what most have said, it will be difficult to jump straight into contracting.

What I would say however is, if you can decide up front what you want to be, a small software house *may* be better, especially from a dev point of view.

I wasted the first 2 years of my career in a tulipe graduate program, the following 2 years I was in a small software house and learned tons more.

[northernladuk]

As contractor you have to have marketable skills, you are a specialist in your field (cue the smirks and laughter) so you have to ask yourself what skills do you have that firms want. You have to be honest with yourself here, none of this I am a graduate I am worth millions. The answer you will get is currently none but lots of potential. This doesn't cut it in contracting.

The graduate scheme is an excellent choice, fast track learning and experience is priceless. To be fair you still probably won't come out with any marketable skills after the first few years as you will still be being moved around the company to look at roles and understand the whole picture (if it is a good scheme) but will certainly put in good stead to rocket your career in the next couple of years. It is this point you will probably pick what you want to do as a career. See that through until you reach your ceiling and then consider contracting.

You are the start of a very steep learning curve leading to any number of career options where the sky is the limit. Try that first before contracting. IMO