Reply to: What happens if you get ill and can't complete a contract?

[northernladuk]

I wish people would stop with the substitution clause...95% of clients aren't going to pay some random person you bring in - not without interviewing them to find out they've got the skills required. Unless you've got some fixed price deliverable, you've got no chance! It's contractor fantasyland! I'd be very surprised if the clause exists on the agency - client contract, probably something to keep us moaning lot quiet and deluded about how IR35 friendly we are

I have always assumed this as well as I am sure that none of my past clients (all large blue chips) would not stand for this. They all had a raft of past contacts, people they know that could take over and would fall straight back on to these and dump you right to substitute, be it in your contract or not. Maybe small clients would see it as you helping them instead of going back to market via an agent but only in a very good working relationship, which wouldn't be that good if you were leaving.

I always thought it seemed reasonable in practice and worth trying but from experience here my doubts have grown as to it's real use.

I am sure in some cases it has worked but I also thought that as a fall back it was just words and would never come off.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Does your contract have a right of substitution? If the contract is with your Ltd co, you can send some one else while you're recovering from your Ebola infection.

Spot the flaw in that plan.

[Muttley08]

They don't vet the bobs - they just turn up and start work.

That's just bad management - I know some bodyshop consultancies will do it with UK based people also. Personally I want to see CV's and have a at least a chat with anyone that's working for me on T&M.

As for bob - he's mostly awful! Some of the communication problems alone (forgetting if he really knows what he's doing), are reason enough to want to interview first.

[mudskipper]

We believe you! We're just miserable old cynics! I guess that's the exception rather than the rule - probably depends on the organisation - imagine if the person messed things up, and the manager took them on without checking them out.

They don't vet the bobs - they just turn up and start work.

[Muttley08]

I tested the water on this one - asked client whether, in principle, he'd be happy for me to get someone else to do the work. He said as far as he was concerned, the contract was with MyCo, and how the work got done was up to me. Shame I didn't have a voice recorder going!

We believe you! We're just miserable old cynics! I guess that's the exception rather than the rule - probably depends on the organisation - imagine if the person messed things up, and the manager took them on without checking them out.

[mudskipper]

No truer words spoken. Unfortunately, the IR35 zealots will not agree.

I tested the water on this one - asked client whether, in principle, he'd be happy for me to get someone else to do the work. He said as far as he was concerned, the contract was with MyCo, and how the work got done was up to me. Shame I didn't have a voice recorder going!

[nomadd]

I wish people would stop with the substitution clause...95% of clients aren't going to pay some random person you bring in - not without interviewing them to find out they've got the skills required. Unless you've got some fixed price deliverable, you've got no chance! It's contractor fantasyland! I'd be very surprised if the clause exists on the agency - client contract, probably something to keep us moaning lot quiet and deluded about how IR35 friendly we are

No truer words spoken. Unfortunately, the IR35 zealots will not agree.

[Muttley08]

I wish people would stop with the substitution clause...95% of clients aren't going to pay some random person you bring in - not without interviewing them to find out they've got the skills required. Unless you've got some fixed price deliverable, you've got no chance! It's contractor fantasyland! I'd be very surprised if the clause exists on the agency - client contract, probably something to keep us moaning lot quiet and deluded about how IR35 friendly we are

In answer to the original question, its very very unlikely the client will do anything - if you're ill for an extended period they'll let you go and replace you. Things happen, they know they do, unless you're being malicious / awkward, they're going to be understanding of it.

[Svalbaard]

I agree with Wanderer.

The end client has a contract with the agency to complete the work not your Ltd co. so if the client does sue, it can only sue the agency, not you. If you are genuinely ill, then as long as you are keeping your agency in the loop then I don't think it will be a problem.

If you are still worried - I'm sure there is a support group out there that you can join, or you could get an insurance product, or something...

[Wanderer]

What happens if during a contract you break your hands/contract Ebola/give yourself a repetive strain injury? I'm concerned that a bank would seek compensation from my limited company for the delay to the project incurred by my being off-site.

You could claim Force majeure. The reality is that you are most likely trading through a limited liability company, contracted to an agency. The client would have to sue the agency (which they aren't going to do) and then the agency would have to sue your company (NOT you personally). The client can't sue you because they have no contract with you. Also, your company will have limited liability and it's most likely that the company won't have any assets (other than cash in the bank) so they could sue your company but they aren't going to get anything out of it.

Bottom line is: Don't worry about it.

[MarillionFan]

Heya

First time contractor here. I'm about to sign a contract but concerned about one thing.

I'll be working for my own ltd company, which will be contracted to supply consulting services to a bank for a year. No notice can be served.

What happens if during a contract you break your hands/contract Ebola/give yourself a repetive strain injury? I'm concerned that a bank would seek compensation from my limited company for the delay to the project incurred by my being off-site.

Is this something I can insure against? Or seek contract terms to mitigate? It must have happened to somebody at some point...

Alex

Also the no notice can be served clause is a crock. If the company wants out they will do and vice versa.

I just had a client turn around to be and say 'Hi MF, can you finish up next week please as my budget has changed?'
'Er no, we have a contact until the end of the month',
'It says 'no notice', so I don't have to give notice'
'No that means I dont have to give you notice!' came the response from the client. 'Well I think you'll find you are in breach of contact, so just make sure it's the end of the month as agreed'

As it happens if the client had wanted out, he could have just said work isnt up to standard or pulled a stunt with the agency.

If I really really wanted out and couldn't get agreement I'd just threaten the client or drop my trousers in a meeting.

[mudskipper]

WTF is this supposed to mean? He may have hit on a point if it made any sense.

It is much more likely you will get canned and replaced at some point, usually when it is apparant it is going to be long term and cause problems with the client.

Problem with a lot of substitution clauses is that although your contract has it in many clients aren't happy about honouring them and would prefer to find their own. Also there are many badly worded substitution clauses that allow the client to refuse the new guy with no reason so make sure you check the wording on the contract carefully. They can refuse if he is not suitable skill or experience wise but can't refuse him at their discretion.

If your client refused a suitable substitute, they'd have a tough job seeking compensation if you were genuinely sick, which was the OP's concern.

[northernladuk]

Yeah, well in theroy you could, but a lot of these contracts have an associated "authorized person" you.

WTF is this supposed to mean? He may have hit on a point if it made any sense.

It is much more likely you will get canned and replaced at some point, usually when it is apparant it is going to be long term and cause problems with the client.

Problem with a lot of substitution clauses is that although your contract has it in many clients aren't happy about honouring them and would prefer to find their own. Also there are many badly worded substitution clauses that allow the client to refuse the new guy with no reason so make sure you check the wording on the contract carefully. They can refuse if he is not suitable skill or experience wise but can't refuse him at their discretion.

[Green Mango]

Does your contract have a right of substitution? If the contract is with your Ltd co, you can send some one else while you're recovering from your Ebola infection.

Yeah, well in theroy you could, but a lot of these contracts have an associated "authorized person" you.

[mudskipper]

Heya

First time contractor here. I'm about to sign a contract but concerned about one thing.

I'll be working for my own ltd company, which will be contracted to supply consulting services to a bank for a year. No notice can be served.

What happens if during a contract you break your hands/contract Ebola/give yourself a repetive strain injury? I'm concerned that a bank would seek compensation from my limited company for the delay to the project incurred by my being off-site.

Is this something I can insure against? Or seek contract terms to mitigate? It must have happened to somebody at some point...

Alex

Does your contract have a right of substitution? If the contract is with your Ltd co, you can send some one else while you're recovering from your Ebola infection.