Reply to: Contract A in hand, intvw for Contract B on Wed

[SueEllen]

Went to Interview B yesterday; didn't go too well in terms of a suitable fit, so Contract A it is, unambiguously.

Still make sure you get your terms sorted out properly.

[theroyale]

Went to Interview B yesterday; didn't go too well in terms of a suitable fit, so Contract A it is, unambiguously.

Ultimately, despite all the suggestions - some of which are incredibly clever - your best bet is to be honest with Agency B and make them aware you have another contract offer and whilst you can delay it some time, you'd need Client B to make a commitment pretty much immediately after interview so you can be fair to Client A etc etc. You should also sugar coat it by saying that you are very keen on the role and so wish to give them priority otherwise you wouldn't be doing the interview !

At the end of the day, keeping it professional and being honest will always stand you in good stead. If you start a contract 'in bad faith' with a view to terminating it, word will get around that this is the type of contractor you are....

[d000hg]

Regardless of trying to stall, it sounds your contract is crap anyway if it doesn't even mention notice or payment terms. I'd be more worried about that.

[theroyale]

I'm not planning to walk after I've started work at contract A. Even if I managed to summon up the nonchalance to do it its a move that could professionally backfire because the agency is one of the biggest in the country. I just want to gauge what a reasonable period of time is to keep my other option open. The contract I've landed isn't time- or mission-critical, its at a fairly lazy public sector type place, so I'm fairly sure client won't be jumping around that I haven't signed the contract the minute after I've received it.

Of course all this depends on the interview tomorrow at client B. Will check back in here after that.

[lukemg]

I don't advocate walking off after starting, although I did do it once.
Sounds like you have the timescale to delay until you hear about the second contract so I don't think there is much of a problem.
Problem comes when contract B says sorry we have found someone internally, you start contract A and then a week later B come back to say - Actually, he can't do it now, can you oblige...

[BolshieBastard]

I'm sure this sort of situation has done the rounds often enough, but still have to ask here: I've landed Contract A for which I interviewed last week - the paperwork is on its way today (Monday). On Wednesday I have an interview for Contract B - fantastic terms paying double of A, better work too, and I'd love to give it a shot.

The question here is how long can I reasonably put off signing Contract A? (Work commences Monday next). The agency on this contract is one of the - if not the - biggest IT recruiters out there, so I should be ruling out changing my mind after I've signed, right? - to ask a more specific question, What Usually Happens if you change your mind during the paperwork process/just after signing, but before actual work starts?

IMO, this is underhand tactics and should be frowned upon. How would you like it if you've negotiated taken the time and made the effort to get say a kitchen company around to price up work, arranged for them to start on a particular date only for them to turn round at the last minute and say 'sorry mate, we've just landed this bumper contract on a new building site and as there's more profit in it for us, you'll have to whistle dixie for us to start on your kitchen'?

Of course a hard core of people here will say there's nothing wrong with what you propose to do but, if the shoe was on the other foot, Im certain these other people would whinge like ****.

Anyway, depends which agency you intend to do the dirty on. If its the spring group and you refuse to do the contract after signing it, they'll stiff you for a minimum 500 knicker.

[Wanderer]

Is it normal though for people to start work with the contract still being passed back and forth unsigned? Just wondering how long I can safely push this...

If they offer you a contract and you start work then you have accepted it, even if you haven't signed it. DON'T start work without a contract is my policy.

[thunderlizard]

IThe question here is how long can I reasonably put off signing Contract A?

more specifically, it's how long will A wait before they decide to use another supplier instead? You're in a better position to know that than we are. Of course the agency will say it needs signing ASAP and is under imminent threat of withdrawing if you don't.

In terms of general reasonableness, if the agency are expecting you to sign a contract that they have written (rather than your standard one), a week isn't unreasonable for legal due diligence before you even start negotiating terms.

[northernladuk]

Everytime people mention starting work without a contract there is always a flurry of mails saying don't do it and it is bad practice which I am sure it is. You are however covered by an implied agreement to the last contract the agent has on his desk when you start so it is not like you don't have one. The problem would come when you need to call on one of the clauses you haven't yet agreed, say for example payment timescales. You are stuck with the last one. I would guess in some cases it maybe difficult to negotiate when you are on site as well.

As to whether or not it is normal it has happened to me on two recent contracts where I had to start before the review had been completed and changes had been made to the satisfaction of all parties. The only reason I was comfortable was that the agent was more than happy to change anything I put to them and almost showed complete indifference to what was in there so was happy they wern't going to pull a fast one. The delay was caused by me asking them to change something and they just didn't or messed up by pasting my bit in to the contract and not proof reading so had grammatical errors so the delay was purely around it making sense, not particularly the terms.

What is your line of thinking here? That you can start contract a and then walk because you have no contract if the other job comes up?

[theroyale]

Is it normal though for people to start work with the contract still being passed back and forth unsigned? Just wondering how long I can safely push this...

[northernladuk]

Didn't your scanner die the other day and you're waiting for a new one to be delivered?

I've used that one before now to slow things down a little

We had one of these scanning/printing/faxing all singing and dancing things that you could mail your scan directly from the machine at the last client and managed to scan and send the blank side of the copy of my receipts for two months until someone pointed it out at the other end

Could just scan a blank page and send him that to add to the confusion. Makes you look like a right pillock but it can extend your delay time by a bit.

[Mr.Whippy]

but this wouldn't really apply because we're doing it electronically, i.e. take printout, sign, scan and return?

Didn't your scanner die the other day and you're waiting for a new one to be delivered?

I've used that one before now to slow things down a little

[theroyale]

Brilliant, I can buy 2-3 days straight up then, notice period clause, I need payment terms clarified too, and of course an IR35 review.

The UK post is frightfully unreliable nowadays. Things often go missing in the post and I have had many contracts come through where the post has accidentally ripped open and the piece of paper I require is missing.

- but this wouldn't really apply because we're doing it electronically, i.e. take printout, sign, scan and return?

Your main issue is if client 2 and agency 2 take a long time in informing you whether you have the role.

- Yes... I'm hoping client 2 will have feedback within a day of interview. If they're going to take say a whole week, then I may have to let contract 2 go - but I want to give it a shot anyway.

[northernladuk]

The UK post is frightfully unreliable nowadays. Things often go missing in the post and I have had many contracts come through where the post has accidentally ripped open and the piece of paper I require is missing. In these cases I have to ring the agent asking where it is, he says wait another day, it doesn't appear so he has to post it taking another two days.

What a terrible state of affairs