2nd to 3rd line

[northernladuk]

I'd have put my house on you telling him to do a search instead of starting a new topic

I will open that can of worms on him when he starts the new thread...

[Mephisto]

Why not open a new thread rather than going off topic on a 3 year old one?

I'd have put my house on you telling him to do a search instead of starting a new topic

[rurffy]

Why not open a new thread rather than going off topic on a 3 year old one?

Yea - did a search and came up with this, so decided to attach a comment.

[northernladuk]

The next question i would ask is, how to move from 3rd line project support to an architects ...I cant seem to know everything and its doing my head in when i am being told of something i havent heard about .

Why not open a new thread rather than going off topic on a 3 year old one?

[rurffy]

The next question i would ask is, how to move from 3rd line project support to an architects ...I cant seem to know everything and its doing my head in when i am being told of something i havent heard about .

[malvolio]

Incidentally, before we all get carried away with our technical genius, my view is and has always been that the hardest job in IT, or any service department, is the one done by those lowly souls on the Helpdesk. They really do have to understand everything. Beneath them are people who know more and more about less and less...

[Yosser Hughes]

It's what my third line team do...

They support 360-odd servers in three datacentres, using a mix of Un*x, Linux and MS servers, including SAN, NAS and VMWare environments and all the usual enterprise fucntions like Exchange and Web services. Between them they can rebuild any of them from scratch ( and have done, on occasion!). They are also required to provide a technical criticism of any proposed changes. As a result, solid awareness of all of that - if not outright technical expertise - is part of the Job Description.

If you see second line as doing the stuff the Helpdesk can't do and third line as doing the stuff that second line can't do, the lines will be a bit blurry. But there is a significant knowledge step between them.

There you go, you wouldn't expect one 3rd line person to have in-depth knowledge of every skill you mentioned in your original reply.

I have some understanding of each skill you mentioned and I'm quite proficient with firewalls and backup, I also have some network skills.

If I was in a perm position I'd be able to shadow someone but as a contractor I'm stuck, I may start applying for permanent 2nd line roles and just hope that I'll get the chance.

[Platypus]

If you see second line as doing the stuff the Helpdesk can't do and third line as doing the stuff that second line can't do, the lines will be a bit blurry. But there is a significant knowledge step between them.

Well TBH that's the definition I have in mind.

I would have thought that most folks who've done 2nd line for some time will have built up their skills and knowledge to 3rd line level. But you're right in that I'm seeing this as the 'helpdesk' view of the support.

[digerido]

It's what my third line team do...

They support 360-odd servers in three datacentres, using a mix of Un*x, Linux and MS servers, including SAN, NAS and VMWare environments and all the usual enterprise fucntions like Exchange and Web services. Between them they can rebuild any of them from scratch ( and have done, on occasion!). They are also required to provide a technical criticism of any proposed changes. As a result, solid awareness of all of that - if not outright technical expertise - is part of the Job Description.

If you see second line as doing the stuff the Helpdesk can't do and third line as doing the stuff that second line can't do, the lines will be a bit blurry. But there is a significant knowledge step between them.

For 3rd line I agree with the solid awareness and understanding in a lot of fields but not technical expertise in each field. When I have met people in the past who claim to know everything in detail I am doubtful of them.

I've found architects normally have an awareness of a lot of technologies but will just concentrate on 2 or 3 key skills and that's where technical expertise comes into play. Saying that just recently I have noticed a lot of grad's at blue chip companies who become a technical architect from the off as help desk or 1st line support doesn't float their boat.

So little experience, so much to prove and so much goes wrong. To be honest too many companies a 'title' is just a name, get the interview and let the company decide if you have the skills.

Work your way up and stick at it, learn the business and learn to take some serious responsibility (not preaching)... 13\14 years experience and I feel I can just about justify moving from 3rd line to more of an architect role.

Good luck

[Prickles]

Do what my m8 AndyW did.

Take in a slab of lagerz and ask da server boyz if you can keep dem in da server room wid its air-conditioning for drinking on da night shifts.

Let da tech-headz drink da lagerz in swaps for chats in how dey are doing their jobz...
AndyW's now a Junior Netadmin!

[malvolio]

Are you sure that's 3rd line support? Sounds pretty heavy duty stuff to me for a support role.

It's what my third line team do...

They support 360-odd servers in three datacentres, using a mix of Un*x, Linux and MS servers, including SAN, NAS and VMWare environments and all the usual enterprise fucntions like Exchange and Web services. Between them they can rebuild any of them from scratch ( and have done, on occasion!). They are also required to provide a technical criticism of any proposed changes. As a result, solid awareness of all of that - if not outright technical expertise - is part of the Job Description.

If you see second line as doing the stuff the Helpdesk can't do and third line as doing the stuff that second line can't do, the lines will be a bit blurry. But there is a significant knowledge step between them.

[Durbs]

Are you sure that's 3rd line support? Sounds pretty heavy duty stuff to me for a support role.

Aye, few of those are more Tech Architecture.

Yosser, you say you feel you'd "I'd make an arse of myself" if you landed a 3rd line support role - why do you feel that? 2nd - 3rd line is just about the ability to read up, learn fast and keep reading up. If you can do that, you'll be fine.

Also helps if you are happy in a 'customer' facing role, i've worked lots in roles that i suppose would be considered '3rd line support' but it wasn't the definition of "doing stuff thats escalated from or deemed too complex for 1st and 2nd" that you often see as a definition of 3rd line. its more liasing with and striking up a relationship with the 'customer' (i.e. the business sector), sitting in countless meetings with them and writing endless designs, specifications and proposals.

Maybe my definition of 3rd line is off and it may be different for server support? But as i say, my previous roles which i'd deem '3rd line' have been mainly design, specification and talking to people rather than actually 'doing'.

[Platypus]

What are you like on firewall management, sizing, enterprise design, shadowing, clustering, failover management, SAN vs NAS, backup optimisation....? What about things that aren't based on Windows? Can you specify and configure an enterprise server from scratch?

Are you sure that's 3rd line support? Sounds pretty heavy duty stuff to me for a support role.

[malvolio]

What are you like on firewall management, sizing, enterprise design, shadowing, clustering, failover management, SAN vs NAS, backup optimisation....? What about things that aren't based on Windows? Can you specify and configure an enterprise server from scratch?

By all means go for thrid line roles, just like all the thrid line guys already have. Just make sure you understand the significant step change between the two layers first. And that starts with working with that team as much as you can.

[Yosser Hughes]

I've been doing 2nd line support for 5 years now and I think I've covered pretty much all there is to cover in that role, I want to up-skill to 3rd line for obvious reasons but I have very little experience as my previous roles just haven't required much server work. Is it an easy step? For what I can see there's not a lot more to it and I already know my way around AD.

I'm having to compete with 1st liners for the 2nd line roles but I'm concerned that I'd make an arse of myself if I landed a 3rd line role without the experience.

The boundaries seem to be very blurred these days, am I just be over cautious?