Reply to: Contracting in the Banking sector?

[Tempted2Contract]

I'm on a similar rate and the tipping point in terms of risk vs reward is probably about a 75k salary + decent pension + bonus. But thats assuming contract roles are readily available. If they are rare in your niche then either the rate is not high enough, or you're better off staying put on 60k pa.

Personally the thought of having to work in IT full time until 65 scares me a lot more than working in an investment bank for the next few years. It can be tough but it isn't that bad, and the beauty of contracting is if you do end up with the manager from hell then it's only going to last 6 months before you move on somewhere else.

I agree that the sums work right now but that 75k tipping point probably isn't too far away. In 6-8 years that's more than realistic and then for the next 30 years of my career I could be pushing on well past that (I'm only 29 just now). Either way seems like a gamble of sorts but at the very least it's made me think long and hard about what I want from life, a question I realise I didn't know the answer to!

Thanks for your opinion, your thinking is exactly where I'm at if think short to medium term...I'm trying hard to think about the long game but there's simply too many variables to be sure.

[GreenerGrass]

£3500 take home is about a 60k salary, which with a 9% pension and 28 days hoiday is not a bad package at all.
But I think you could gross 120k a year on £500 a day if you don't take much holiday and days off sick.
Over 10 years this difference will add up to a very large amount of money, and in terms of (disposable) investable income you are actually more than doubling what you will have available. Enough to pay a house off MUCH quicker and own it outright, and easily double your pension pot when compared with the permie job.
This will give you quite a few options for a lifestyle shift out of working fulltime, assuming you do get continuous contracts which is of course the big gamble. The travelling isn't an issue if you move to just outside London, there are plenty of places 30-40 mins train ride from the City or Canary Wharf.

I'm on a similar rate and the tipping point in terms of risk vs reward is probably about a 75k salary + decent pension + bonus. But thats assuming contract roles are readily available. If they are rare in your niche then either the rate is not high enough, or you're better off staying put on 60k pa.

Personally the thought of having to work in IT full time until 65 scares me a lot more than working in an investment bank for the next few years. It can be tough but it isn't that bad, and the beauty of contracting is if you do end up with the manager from hell then it's only going to last 6 months before you move on somewhere else.

[tommyc]

Would I be correct in concluding that this is a life of hell?

I work in a German and Swiss banks, and it is easy peasy, I bugger off at 12:30 on Friday etc. I used to get annoyed with my PM if made me stayed past 17:30.

This kind of description puts me off a return to London.

Like others have been saying it really depends on the department and manager.. Unfortuantely mine is a workaholic who loves his job. My observation of everyone else in the office is that they work hard for long hours and take minimal breaks..

Having said that if you are tulip hot and can produce results beyond expectations then I bet they'd let you off a bit of browsing the web and taking a proper lunch. Unfortunately in my experience traders and managers do not always understand the hold ups that occur with development / bug fixing and expect a reproduction of that time when you whipped up a nice app for them in a few days (which turned out to be easy for you due to some nice API or coding tricks and no bugs crept in) every time they ask you for something.

Maybe its a front / middle / back office thing. I've always worked in a small firm close to traders and bonuses have been big but work expected high.. Although then again I've friends in the big investment banks who have been doing slavery hours for years but have plenty of $$$

[Tempted2Contract]

Thanks for a bunch of top class replies.

I think I'm closing in on a decision but it's been quite a ride. I think I can genuinely offset the contract benefits with opportunities here if I consider things like:

- my company is more than happy for me to spend several weeks a year training on anything I want to relevant to my career path and to front some decent cash for it.
- I've had some problems in the last 18 months with a nasty RSI type issue from 10 years of computer work with bad posture. My company were very supportive though it and if that reared it's ugly head again contracting I'd be screwed
- 4 years service means the redundancy package will be reasonable should the worst happen
- I've got a ton of unvested shares that I'd be saying goodbye to that will be a nice earner in the near future.
- I've had another look on the job sites and I can't see another contract that really lists my skill set (this was a real eye opener)

I'm also speaking to people about roles in Sydney and New York and if I had my hand on heart I'd say these were more compelling options still.

I'm still getting the odd pang to break free and go for it, but I think I might have brought this to a logical conclusion.

Thanks everyone *tips his hat*

[lukemg]

Key thing for me is your prospects for advancement at current place. If these are genuine and not just the usual carrot dangled at permies which never quite pans out due to reorg etc, then you need to consider staying if you like the people/place. 500/day is a good headline figure and does kick the money in (I was on this last year) but there are plenty on here who are seeing their rates slide and gaps between jobs getting longer as the market shifts in a different direction/new entrants/outsourcing (including me).
You can expect to be hired for technical knowledge and not to alter the strategic direction (this can be frustrating if you have been at that level previously). This knowledge may become routine/boring to you and less valued over time (almost certain for everything except SAP). If you are a pure techie then maybe this is fine but I am sensing more of a desire to jump up the ladder a rung or 2 and take a more management/strategic role which the current place may offer.
Money wise, I am doing better in total terms over the course of career so far than friends in other professions (e.g. bean counters) but I am noticing their salary/package/pension stepping steadily upwards over time along with the job levels, my yearly earnings graph looks like the worlds scariest roller-coaster and there is every chance they will match/overtake me if we count everything up at the end.
Point is, if the company is going places and you can go with it, then that might be the smart money. Forget about the travelling all over though, novelty of that wears off very quick, even quicker with family at home.
Good luck.

[BlasterBates]

...ah so conditionally a life of hell.

What are the probabilities ?

is it 20% hell 50% hell or 90% hell.

[Bright Spark]

all depends on which area and manager you end up with, some are very
strict and clockwatchers etc, whilst the opposite extreme is no one gives a sh*t what you do and how you do it as long as you deliver on time and in budget.

[Scrag Meister]

Banking in London

No problem here.

8-5, flexible/understanding manager is the essential in the mix.

[BlasterBates]

Unfortunately as a contractor you will still be exected to pull in the hours and make the good impression otherwise you'll be dropped and replaced with another.. my firm is hiring contractors because they are easy to hire and fire.. get us in to build the system and then get rid of us and leave a permie to maintain it. Amount of hours / slavery does depend on your manager although alot of them are workaholics.. In my experience your lunch break will consist of nipping round the corner for a sandwich then eating it at your desk while you read up on the API you are using for your project, don't expect to surf the web or access web mail either.

Would I be correct in concluding that this is a life of hell?

I work in a German and Swiss banks, and it is easy peasy, I bugger off at 12:30 on Friday etc. I used to get annoyed with my PM if made me stayed past 17:30.

This kind of description puts me off a return to London.

[Scrag Meister]

Bonuses

To be honest everything I have heard, particularly from Middle and Back Office is that bonuses for the last couple of years have been dire.

Front Office never speak about it cos their bonuses are sooooooo huge.

So unless you are working FO, I don't think the bonus is that important.

With all the Hoo Haa over the past 18 months during the crunch, bonuses are smaller, deferred and if sizeable taxed.

[MarillionFan]

My thoughts on the finance world echo what a few others have said here..

My experience is in hedge funds (my permie role after uni and now my current contract) certainly finance is a lot more political and I think work ethic expected to be alot harder than other jobs.. most people who work in these firms (the permies) are ambitious and chasing the $$ hence prepared to put in loads of hours.. Perception is the key, if the people running the firm and paying the bonuses think you're doing a good job then you get more money / promotion etc.. of course as a contractor this doesn't really affect you which brings me to the bonuses issue.. As a permie you can potentially receive a bonus which puts your income above what you'd have earned contracting, but of course you also have the other permie benefits of job security holiday/sick pay etc.
Unfortunately as a contractor you will still be exected to pull in the hours and make the good impression otherwise you'll be dropped and replaced with another.. my firm is hiring contractors because they are easy to hire and fire.. get us in to build the system and then get rid of us and leave a permie to maintain it. Amount of hours / slavery does depend on your manager although alot of them are workaholics.. In my experience your lunch break will consist of nipping round the corner for a sandwich then eating it at your desk while you read up on the API you are using for your project, don't expect to surf the web or access web mail either.

Skills development is poor both as a contractor and a permie I think.. You get hired based on your current skills to do whatever they need and you keep doing it.. certainly in hedge funds anyway, they are small firms and will not spend money on training IT staff they'll just hire someone who has the training.

Having said that the experience in finance will make you attractive for all the other finance roles. Depending on the role product knowledge e.g. of options / futures etc will help alot.. Although my coding skills aren't too hot I make up for it by understanding what my managers and team are talking about when they discuss what they want the system to do and the mathematical implications of calculating the things they want.

City living / commuting has its pros and cons.. I used to like it but after having gone travelling a bit I'm not a fan of big cities anymore.

I would think very carefully about ditching a nice permie role you are happy with for a career in finance.. Unless you are ambitious (well maybe not because career development is poor) and very money oriented it may not be your cup of tea, and I don't think you earn much more contracting than you would if you landed a permie role due to the bonus situation.
As you may have guessed I'd rather be out of the finance world but for now its where my experience lies and what will pay my bills. Once I have a bit more experience under my belt I may well try and jump ship.

Good post.

[tommyc]

My thoughts on the finance world echo what a few others have said here..

My experience is in hedge funds (my permie role after uni and now my current contract) certainly finance is a lot more political and I think work ethic expected to be alot harder than other jobs.. most people who work in these firms (the permies) are ambitious and chasing the $$ hence prepared to put in loads of hours.. Perception is the key, if the people running the firm and paying the bonuses think you're doing a good job then you get more money / promotion etc.. of course as a contractor this doesn't really affect you which brings me to the bonuses issue.. As a permie you can potentially receive a bonus which puts your income above what you'd have earned contracting, but of course you also have the other permie benefits of job security holiday/sick pay etc.
Unfortunately as a contractor you will still be exected to pull in the hours and make the good impression otherwise you'll be dropped and replaced with another.. my firm is hiring contractors because they are easy to hire and fire.. get us in to build the system and then get rid of us and leave a permie to maintain it. Amount of hours / slavery does depend on your manager although alot of them are workaholics.. In my experience your lunch break will consist of nipping round the corner for a sandwich then eating it at your desk while you read up on the API you are using for your project, don't expect to surf the web or access web mail either.

Skills development is poor both as a contractor and a permie I think.. You get hired based on your current skills to do whatever they need and you keep doing it.. certainly in hedge funds anyway, they are small firms and will not spend money on training IT staff they'll just hire someone who has the training.

Having said that the experience in finance will make you attractive for all the other finance roles. Depending on the role product knowledge e.g. of options / futures etc will help alot.. Although my coding skills aren't too hot I make up for it by understanding what my managers and team are talking about when they discuss what they want the system to do and the mathematical implications of calculating the things they want.

City living / commuting has its pros and cons.. I used to like it but after having gone travelling a bit I'm not a fan of big cities anymore.

I would think very carefully about ditching a nice permie role you are happy with for a career in finance.. Unless you are ambitious (well maybe not because career development is poor) and very money oriented it may not be your cup of tea, and I don't think you earn much more contracting than you would if you landed a permie role due to the bonus situation.
As you may have guessed I'd rather be out of the finance world but for now its where my experience lies and what will pay my bills. Once I have a bit more experience under my belt I may well try and jump ship.

[MarillionFan]

I thought the case was that you might have SC but without the technical skill you ain't gettin the contract! Seriously, SC can of course be very useful but without that niche skill you might as well be selling peanuts at a kilmarnock game.

You're right about niche.

IMO, having SC seems to pay an extra £100 per day on top of a skill. IMO.

[ChimpMaster]

I agree. I started in banking and then moved out. Once had SC clearance and then didnt bother. Now it seems there is competition everywhere and the 'niche' skill that you could do with isnt bloody technical it's industry and SC!!!

I thought the case was that you might have SC but without the technical skill you ain't gettin the contract! Seriously, SC can of course be very useful but without that niche skill you might as well be selling peanuts at a kilmarnock game.

[MarillionFan]

If I could ever get my SC clearance back I would be doing everything to get in to this inustry and protect it (only lasts 2 yeards between uses).

I agree. I started in banking and then moved out. Once had SC clearance and then didnt bother. Now it seems there is competition everywhere and the 'niche' skill that you could do with isnt bloody technical it's industry and SC!!!