Reply to: Tricks by interviewers..!

[herman_g]

[QUOTE]IPR makes it their intellectual property, not their property. For example, the author of a book has the intellectual property right to the book - that does not make it illegal for me to have a copy of the book. As the author of any documentation, you may waive your intellectual property rights and yet still retain the moral right to be identified as the author of the work (which applies to documentation, code, presentations etc.)

So, no - it doesn't make taking any documentation with you theft. If there is a specific clause in the contract which prohibits you from taking any work with you, then it possibly might be a breach of contract, but not theft.



Excellent idea - so when the client says "have you done this kind of thing before?" you can tell them "yes - but rather than being able to reuse anything, I'll charge you so that I can reinvent the wheel". I bet your clients love you

QUOTE]

As a matter of fact they do. It is all about confidentiality and integrity.

Other than perhaps simple file utilities or something along that line, I can't see how they could view it as acceptable. Maybe it would make some sense if I was spending two weeks slapping together a website or something.

In banking, I just can't imagine facing the reaction of showing up at HSBC with code I wrote at Nationwide - that would be DEFINITELY be considered highly unprofessional and unethical.

Back in the days of working for McDonald's, if I took code / documentation and showed up at Burger King with it - that would be viewed as revelation of corporate secrets.

When somebody else made the same move and found out, I would end up a laughing stock, minumum, but also quite likely in court.

Never done it, never will.

[lightng]

Is every morning often? Im not really sure what you are suggesting here, that Im sweaty, have a cleanliness compulsion?

No, just reeling in my fishing line. Looks like you got away. Good answer.

[escapeUK]

I'm reading between the lines here. Shower often?

Is every morning often? Im not really sure what you are suggesting here, that Im sweaty, have a cleanliness compulsion?

Since I left, I have heard that the MD has put all the tables into a line, (all 8 of them) the other 22 staff have been made redundant or left and he sits at the head of the table listening in on everything.

Terrible atmosphere as you can imagine and no Im not joking. Its like the matrix, I didnt believe it till I saw it with my own eyes. :-)

[lightng]

The MD told me on a Friday he was moving me into the general office, from my own air con office (the only perk)

I'm reading between the lines here. Shower often?

[escapeUK]

LOL really? Well send me the details of any roles that do this and you walk. I will quite happily apply for them

Wonder if any of the guys on here with these I wouldn't put up with that and walk type responses ever would when it came down to the wire or is it a case of forum gusto!

Yes really, I spent years of my life in a perm role I hated with people I despised. The MD told me on a Friday he was moving me into the general office, from my own air con office (the only perk) I gave him my resignation letter on the Monday.

They are almost nearly out of business now, when the recession started all the best people had already left and all they had left was the no hopers. Not good in hard times.

P.S. You can are welcome to all the roles I consider beneath me. If you want to have an unhappy life working with losers thats upto you!

[gadgetman]

I've been interviewing a lot of Test Analysts recently and have a similar question to item 2 but I can't be arsed messing about with "tricks". I just ask them straight out for examples of how they have dealt with incomplete or poor requirements.

I really don't understand your stuff about "the solution" when talking about testing. A possible approach, maybe but if you don't have requirements how can you even offer an approach let alone "a solution"?

As for "trick #1", its got to be generally accepted that everyone in the industry brings docs with them to use as templates but providing actual content was a schoolboy error, especially if this was in any way in a sector with potentially sensitive data.

[cojak]

It was too difficult to refuse at that point..!!

No, it wasn't.

They rely on your imagined reciprocity - don't fall for it again. As you noticed they in fact gave you bugger all in return.

[Darren_Test]

You told the interviewer that you didn't keep documents from previous clients. Then you sent him a document from a previous client, thus proving the first statement was a lie. You (probably) also broke the confidentiality clause of your previous contract. Both of these are bad things to do in an interview.

Okay..

[Darren_Test]

Another one with a technology major..

Got spec through pimps saying the role is going to be more managerial than technical. But during introduction first interviewer said role is more technical/hand-on than managerial, which made me to focus & give examples of hands on technical roles rather than managerial stuff.

Towards the end second interviewer started giving kind of interview feedback saying I am too technical and less managerial material..! This made me to more or less contradict first part of interview by saying more about my managerial experience than technical stuff.

No price for guessing outcome of interview.

[doodab]

30 minutes later I got call agent saying I am not selected, with out giving any concreate reasons.

Don't be silly. I was the author of the document. Suppose if I was n't, how is this interviewer is going to conclude that I was not the author..? Come on..

Although sending them someone elses work would have been even more stupid, what has the fact that you wrote it got to do with anything?

You told the interviewer that you didn't keep documents from previous clients. Then you sent him a document from a previous client, thus proving the first statement was a lie. You (probably) also broke the confidentiality clause of your previous contract. Both of these are bad things to do in an interview.

Having said that, if it was a documentation job I suspect the reason you didn't get it is your spelling and grammar.

[Darren_Test]

Keeping them is fine. Your mistakes were lying about it, getting caught lying about it, and sharing them with the interviewer.

Don't be silly. I was the author of the document. Suppose if I was n't, how this interviewer going to conclude that I was not the author..? Come on..

[doodab]

Keeping them is fine. Your mistakes were lying about it, getting caught lying about it, and sharing them with the interviewer.

[TheFaQQer]

Yes, that's why I refused to give docs first, though it was bit weak refusal. But some how I fallen flat on second bait.

How it happened is during early part of interview I declined to send documents saying I donot keep any docs from ex-clients. But just before the end of one hour tele interview, he put second bait by giving his email ID & just asked me whether he can expect my docs in next half an hour or not..??

It was too difficult to refuse at that point..!!

If you keep them, don't deny it!

It's easy enough to justify - "I quite often get clients asking if I can pop back for a couple of days, and they like me to be prepared" / "I don't like having to reinvent the wheel, so have a series of generic documents that I can tailor to meet specific requirements" / "I asked the client if I could retain a copy of the documents so that they can call me with questions"

Then, tell them no they can't have them.

Simples.

[Darren_Test]

Whether a contract states this or not, keeping any work from a previous assignment is plain wrong. No other way to describe it.
I.

Yes, that's why I refused to give docs first, though it was bit weak refusal. But some how I fallen flat on second bait.

How it happened is during early part of interview I declined to send documents saying I donot keep any docs from ex-clients. But just before the end of one hour tele interview, he put second bait by giving his email ID & just asked me whether he can expect my docs in next half an hour or not..??

It was too difficult to refuse at that point..!!

[TheFaQQer]

I dont think confdientiality is the clause that covers this bit. Most if not all clients will expect you to sign a clause saying anything you create while there is their property. It's too late at night to remember what it is called exactly. Intellecual property, or rights or something. This makes taking ANY documentation home theft doesn't it? You shouldn't have it so disclosing something you shouldn't have isn't a problem.

It has definately been in my past contracts. Whether you could pull it out if a true consultancy based contract I am not sure.

HTH

IPR makes it their intellectual property, not their property. For example, the author of a book has the intellectual property right to the book - that does not make it illegal for me to have a copy of the book. As the author of any documentation, you may waive your intellectual property rights and yet still retain the moral right to be identified as the author of the work (which applies to documentation, code, presentations etc.)

So, no - it doesn't make taking any documentation with you theft. If there is a specific clause in the contract which prohibits you from taking any work with you, then it possibly might be a breach of contract, but not theft.

However, failing the integrity test IMO is unbelievable.

Whether a contract states this or not, keeping any work from a previous assignment is plain wrong. No other way to describe it.

I knew one contractor who would bring a tape full of source with him onsite on the first day of a gig and ask to have it loaded on the system ( those were pre-terminal emulation days ). God knows how he got away with it. I would have had him escorted out the building straight away.

Work you do for a company stays with the company full stop. On the day I come home after a contract finishes, I immidiately delete any notes and documents from my laptop and shred any hard copies that I happened to have brought home during the gig.

Excellent idea - so when the client says "have you done this kind of thing before?" you can tell them "yes - but rather than being able to reuse anything, I'll charge you so that I can reinvent the wheel". I bet your clients love you

Anything that has any reusable value should be reused - not cribbed word for word, or anything like that, but where there is a possibility to save time, energy and money, I would expect my team to do that. There used to be a huge initiative at Oracle consulting to provide samples that could be reused from project to project - why should my business waste time and money when others don't? Burning your experience is, at best, naive.

Keeping data is a moot point with different opinions ovbviously. Bearing in mind our contracts probably had a clause making sure we don't take it, in theory we shouldn't be detabating this topic as it would be illegal. By discussing it and admitting you do is admitting guilt and somethings you get up to are better just kept to yourself IMO...

Never had a contract yet that stopped me doing it - apart from the last one, for the government. That would have been illegal rather than just breach of contract, though, and would have resulted in a visit from large men with big guns in the middle of the night.....