Reply to: Contracting abroad, working direct, not a preferred supplier hitch

[Manic]

VAT is not charged between two businesses provided that:

1. They both have a valid VAT number
2. The transaction occurs between member states e.g. Services invoiced in the UK, but carried out in France.

The upside to all this is you become a net receiver of VAT refunds every quarter

I've been a net receiver for the last 10 years, and it's very nice thank you very much

Information here

.

Interesting, learn something new every day, thanks.

[nodric]

Come again? You should be charging VAT if the supply is in the EU.

VAT is not charged between two businesses provided that:

1. They both have a valid VAT number
2. The transaction occurs between member states e.g. Services invoiced in the UK, but carried out in France.

The upside to all this is you become a net receiver of VAT refunds every quarter

I've been a net receiver for the last 10 years, and it's very nice thank you very much

Information here

.

[Manic]

Following on from this would I charge VAT if I were to now invoice using a UK agency?

I intended to charge zero VAT from my own UK limited.

Come again? You should be charging VAT if the supply is in the EU.

[DS23]

well done!

[MickeyP]

Client backed down in the end. UK company now on supplier list. Cheers for the help all.

Mickey

[MickeyP]

Following on from this would I charge VAT if I were to now invoice using a UK agency?

I intended to charge zero VAT from my own UK limited.

[MickeyP]

Thanks for all your answers. I knocked it back to the client saying it would be about 10% more expensive if they want to pay me via an agency. Let you know what happens.

[NotAllThere]

You can try arguing reasonably, on a basis of their sense of fairness and the worth of their word (I shouldn't bother if they are French). But you probably can't practicably force them to do what they are legally obliged to do.

Most of these replies above, although theoretically correct, assume that you and the client are on something like equal terms. This is almost certainly the purest fantasy. The client will likely simply refuse to pay you directly and will not swallow the agency fee, regardless of what the contract says.

Then you can sue if you like, bearing in mind that the client company people you are dealing with are not risking their own money, but you are probably risking all your money and your house; and that a lawsuit that would bankrupt you several times over would not even be separately identifiable in their accounts.

No, it's not fair.

Not quite sure what planet you're on there, Tarquin. Most European countries have a fairly easy and relatively cheap legal process to follow to recover owed money.

[RichardCranium]

Hmm. In my experience those clients with a Preferred Supplier List tend to be incompetent in procurement (although they think they're not). My guess is that someone has stupidly mentioned you are being taken on direct to the agent, and the savvy agent has bullied the admin / clerical pleb responsible for contracts into believing the client is committed to using the PSL.

It is a Preferred Supplier List. The client owns their own business; they are not and should not be beholden to their PSL suppliers.

My gut feeling is that if you push back you will get your own way. Better yet, if you can get to talk to the Procurement Manager and explain you are a services supplier and not a recruitment agency and not competing with the agency, that will give the numpty something to say to the agent.

Stick to the thought that you are like a plumber or builder that has been booked to do some work - they are not taken on through an agency; you have sold services to the client and not to an agent.

[TheFaQQer]

Client now tells me that they will not add my UK company to their preferred supplier list due to some new rules! So how the hell do I get paid?

They seem to be confusing "preferred supplier list" and "supplier list" - you may not be their preferred supplier, but regardless of their rules, you ARE their supplier.

Explain this gently to them, or point out that you can go through a third party and add on the words "but obviously that will make it more expensive for you" when you mention it.

[thunderlizard]

Tell them you're not asking to go on the preferred supplier list (though it would be nice), you just want to get paid. If they've already contracted you it's too late for them to complain.

Dave's option 4 is what I'd go for, but be persistent and you won't have to sue. They will go for the path of least resistance and their legal time is probably too expensive for them to want to spend much of if before they pay up.

[Tarquin Farquhar]

You can try arguing reasonably, on a basis of their sense of fairness and the worth of their word (I shouldn't bother if they are French). But you probably can't practicably force them to do what they are legally obliged to do.

Most of these replies above, although theoretically correct, assume that you and the client are on something like equal terms. This is almost certainly the purest fantasy. The client will likely simply refuse to pay you directly and will not swallow the agency fee, regardless of what the contract says.

Then you can sue if you like, bearing in mind that the client company people you are dealing with are not risking their own money, but you are probably risking all your money and your house; and that a lawsuit that would bankrupt you several times over would not even be separately identifiable in their accounts.

No, it's not fair.

[Not So Wise]

You did have a contract or purchase order no? If that is the case then their preferred supplier list is meaningless as contract stand's

But in name of good relations, say sure you will use their preferred supplier, but they (client) swallow the difference (agents margin) and preferred supplier will have to agree to same contract terms

As to how you get paid for work already done, simple, you invoice them, PSL's are just internal preferences, not get out clause's to avoid paying monies owed

[jmo21]

not sure why you think it's crazy PSL, annoying maybe, but tulip happens.

Yes, things have changed, and those 4 suggestions cover all your options.

[DaveB]

4 options.

1. Point them to the contract between your ltd and their company, specifically to the bit about terms of payment and point out they are contractually obliged to pay for work done.

2. Agree to use the preferred supplier, ensuring that the supplier agrees to pay you the same rate you were getting from the client. If they wont then bump your rate to cover the loss.

3. Agree to use the preferred supplier and swallow the loss from their margin.

4. Walk, and sue for the outstanding money.