Reply to: Agency margins in "current climate" ...

[jmo21]

So I go back to my original point that Agents are more concerned with extracting large margins than they are giving contractors/clients a fair deal... greed and profits put before people

FFS!! of course they are! they are treading the fine line of getting as much out of you and the client as possible, and not losing the client.

YOU are trying to get the maximum for yourself too!

When the **** did business become about fairness?? It's business to business. Dog eat dog etc.

Even fair trade coffee is just a slogan to sell more coffee!

[pzz76077]

Rubbish - it was nothing but greed and more greed that caused the failure of the banking system - nothing else. But let's not get started on that...

Well, yes. actually lets get started on that if you dont mind!

PZZ

[kaiser78]

Originally Posted by pzz76077
Finally, may I point out that it was not greed that caused the failure of the banking system, but incompetence- bankers were not able to comprehend the risk they were taking on nor did they have any idea how to value said so called toxic instruments.
PZZ

Rubbish - it was nothing but greed and more greed that caused the failure of the banking system - nothing else. But let's not get started on that...

[pzz76077]

You're welcome PZZ Just dont forget, their business practice leans towards greed and profits before people.



When you say you left the UK, did you mean you left planet earth because clearly you do not live in the real world.


Stooping low again PZZ ... We have talked about this haven't we


Yeh, I agree to an extent, but whatever way you look at it if they were not able to comprehend the risk they were taking on then they shouldn't really have taken that risk on. But there are plenty of other examples like self cert mortgages and lending practices that created the housing bubble. Just a bull run in a china shop in the end

Funny old world isnt it.

By and large, the end client has the biggest influence on the rate that can be offered to a contractor BTW. If they are not willing to pay more than 50ph for a set of skills, there is no way the contractor will get the 100ph he wants, regardless of the cut the agent takes.

PZZ

PZZ

[hgllgh]

Oh you mean that Agents are running a business?? Funny, that never dawned on me, thanks for pointing that revelation out.

You're welcome PZZ Just dont forget, their business practice leans towards greed and profits before people.

Would it not be better to ask the end client to double your rate?? After all they are the ones that think you and your agent are only worth 300pd together?? Seems to me this is the real source of your financial woes not the agent.

When you say you left the UK, did you mean you left planet earth because clearly you do not live in the real world.

To answer your final point, no, you are the loser. I dont give a toss how much the UK gets screwed, I left many years ago.

Stooping low again PZZ ... We have talked about this haven't we

Finally, may I point out that it was not greed that caused the failure of the banking system, but incompetence- bankers were not able to comprehend the risk they were taking on nor did they have any idea how to value said so called toxic instruments.
PZZ

Yeh, I agree to an extent, but whatever way you look at it if they were not able to comprehend the risk they were taking on then they shouldn't really have taken that risk on. But there are plenty of other examples like self cert mortgages and lending practices that created the housing bubble. Just a bull run in a china shop in the end

[pzz76077]

Phew thank fk for that, don't hurry back mate...

Why would I want to?? You are welcome to it.....

PZZ

[Ruse]

Oh you mean that Agents are running a business?? Funny, that never dawned on me, thanks for pointing that revelation out.

Would it not be better to ask the end client to double your rate?? After all they are the ones that think you and your agent are only worth 300pd together?? Seems to me this is the real source of your financial woes not the agent.

To answer your final point, no, you are the loser. I dont give a toss how much the UK gets screwed, I left many years ago.

Finally, may I point out that it was not greed that caused the failure of the banking system, but incompetence- bankers were not able to comprehend the risk they were taking on nor did they have any idea how to value said so called toxic instruments.

PZZ

Phew thank fk for that, don't hurry back mate...

[pzz76077]

Nice ... who is stooping low now PZZ.... Showing your colours.

You just don't get it do you! I did try to negotiate but this Agent was unwilling to budge at all. So I go back to my original point that Agents are more concerned with extracting large margins than they are giving contractors/clients a fair deal... greed and profits put before people ... exactly how the banks have behaved which enabled the credit bubble to form and look where they are now. So far they have sponged around £1 trillion off the taxpayer (Moneyweek) in the UK alone and I believe they have sponged a further £50 billion today. Are they winners or losers PZZ ?

Oh you mean that Agents are running a business?? Funny, that never dawned on me, thanks for pointing that revelation out.

Would it not be better to ask the end client to double your rate?? After all they are the ones that think you and your agent are only worth 300pd together?? Seems to me this is the real source of your financial woes not the agent.

To answer your final point, no, you are the loser. I dont give a toss how much the UK gets screwed, I left many years ago.

Finally, may I point out that it was not greed that caused the failure of the banking system, but incompetence- bankers were not able to comprehend the risk they were taking on nor did they have any idea how to value said so called toxic instruments.

PZZ

[hgllgh]

The consensus sais that this guy brought it on himself.

After all, why would a world class developer with brilliant communications skills, but is unable to negotiate a simple rate increase and who is on as much as 200pd need to post here??


I suppose that even this simple reply will get you both back on here whingeing like a couple of biatches......
PZZ

Nice ... who is stooping low now PZZ.... Showing your colours.

You just don't get it do you! I did try to negotiate but this Agent was unwilling to budge at all. So I go back to my original point that Agents are more concerned with extracting large margins than they are giving contractors/clients a fair deal... greed and profits put before people ... exactly how the banks have behaved which enabled the credit bubble to form and look where they are now. So far they have sponged around £1 trillion off the taxpayer (Moneyweek) in the UK alone and I believe they have sponged a further £50 billion today. Are they winners or losers PZZ ?

[pzz76077]

Oh my God, I hope I never have to work with contractors who are utter morons like you...

The consensus sais that this guy brought it on himself.

After all, why would a world class developer with brilliant communications skills, but is unable to negotiate a simple rate increase and who is on as much as 200pd need to post here??


I suppose that even this simple reply will get you both back on here whingeing like a couple of biatches......


PZZ

[Ruse]

Its been said that if someone has to resort to juvenile abuse on a BB in a futile final attempt to get their point across, then said person has lost the intellectual argument long ago. The fact that you have had to stoop this low twice now only goes to illustrate my earlier point regarding you personality if it was ever needed.

Ive no doubt that you will continue to do well out of contracting on your 200pd as you say until the agent kicks you out for being a pain in the ass.

Anyway, until then, good luck and goodbye to you sais I.

PZZ

Oh my God, I hope I never have to work with contractors who are utter morons like you...

[hgllgh]

The very idea that you are not fully committed to a contract that you have signed up to sais a lot about your character and I have to say that you are not the sort of person that I would want to employ.
If I were your agent I would dump you now before you caused any further trouble.

There are plenty more where you came from - anyone can read a few books from Microsoft and operate a point and click development tool.
It seems that everyone thinks that the world owes them a living these days. If you had a PhD, hot C++ and were a master in algorithmic trading systems then you may have a case. However you are one step up from desktop support and there are thousands of your likes for every role that becomes available.

PZZ

ok, so when you posted the above assuming that I am not fully committed and then attacking my skills unjustifiably, you lost the intellectual arguement? All I did was elaborate in your silly accusations which you then failed to respond to. If anything you lowered me to your level. But that's ok you just carry on jumping to conclusions about people. More fool you

[pzz76077]

Shouldn't really dignify this drivel with a response, but, what the 'eck.

Look Mr PZZ sais, I took this contract for a number of reasons, none of which I need to justify to anyone and especially not to the likes of you. Besides these other reasons there is a clause which means I can move on with no notice after a certain period of time and due to the low rate that is exactly what I will do. It is also exactly what the previous contractor for the role did, and apparently the one before that too. So, because this agency is taking such a ridiculous margin, poor old client co is having to deal with a rapid turnover of contactors. If the contract locked me in for any length of time at that rate I more than likely would have said no, but as I said there were other circumstances that I needed to consider. It seems to me that you judge people without getting the full picture first.

Just take a step back and read your post above. In fact I would invite anyone reading this or anyone who has posted on this thread, would you want to work with this guy?

Ah ... hold on ... I think I know what has happened here ... I think you may have left your brain in the 1980's... Winners and losers ... please, that is so old hat dear fellow. If I am in a very strong position financially does that make me a winner in the PZZ book of BS?

I've done very well out of contracting thankyou so long may the business world be a brutal and friendless place that has no time for me.

So, Mr PZZ, please educate the contracting community . If I am contracting as a developer (the definition of which includes being able to communicate at all levels of the business, understand requirements etc as well as technical ability) can you please inform us which skills are, in your view, more important?

Its been said that if someone has to resort to juvenile abuse on a BB in a futile final attempt to get their point across, then said person has lost the intellectual argument long ago. The fact that you have had to stoop this low twice now only goes to illustrate my earlier point regarding you personality if it was ever needed.

Ive no doubt that you will continue to do well out of contracting on your 200pd as you say until the agent kicks you out for being a pain in the ass.

Anyway, until then, good luck and goodbye to you sais I.

PZZ

[TheFaQQer]

This all makes entertaining reading, but as SoS said a while back:

what do you want out of this? Legislation to fix/limit the margins of agencies? or just to force them to tell you.

Or is this just a "It's not fair" rant?

We're back (as ever) to the same old story - you aren't happy with a contract rate that you agreed (for whatever reason). What are you hoping to accomplish by whinging on here about it?

There are always going to be two camps - those on the lower rates who complain about how much the agency is taking, and those on the higher rates that agree a rate that they are happy with and don't care how much the agency is taking.

I suggest that you try to move yourself from the former to the latter.

[hgllgh]

The IT contracting market is no different to any other market: there are winners and losers.

The OP is undoubtedly a loser and his agent is a winner. There a no winners without losers.

The old adage: if you cant stand the heat, keep out of the kitchen is just as appropriate here as anywhere else.

The OP is way out of his depth thinking that you only need to be a developer to be a successful contractor when in fact it is only one of the lesser skills required.

Business is a brutal and friendless world that has no time for people like the OP.
PZZ

Shouldn't really dignify this drivel with a response, but, what the 'eck.

Look Mr PZZ sais, I took this contract for a number of reasons, none of which I need to justify to anyone and especially not to the likes of you. Besides these other reasons there is a clause which means I can move on with no notice after a certain period of time and due to the low rate that is exactly what I will do. It is also exactly what the previous contractor for the role did, and apparently the one before that too. So, because this agency is taking such a ridiculous margin, poor old client co is having to deal with a rapid turnover of contactors. If the contract locked me in for any length of time at that rate I more than likely would have said no, but as I said there were other circumstances that I needed to consider. It seems to me that you judge people without getting the full picture first.

Just take a step back and read your post above. In fact I would invite anyone reading this or anyone who has posted on this thread, would you want to work with this guy?

Ah ... hold on ... I think I know what has happened here ... I think you may have left your brain in the 1980's... Winners and losers ... please, that is so old hat dear fellow. If I am in a very strong position financially does that make me a winner in the PZZ book of BS?

I've done very well out of contracting thankyou so long may the business world be a brutal and friendless place that has no time for me.

So, Mr PZZ, please educate the contracting community . If I am contracting as a developer (the definition of which includes being able to communicate at all levels of the business, understand requirements etc as well as technical ability) can you please inform us which skills are, in your view, more important?