Agency margins in "current climate" ...

[The Agents View]

Its staggering how may contractors have no comprehension whatsoever of the market space they operate in.

I wonder how many Lawyers would get very far without knowing about the Judicial process??

PZZ

PZZ,

Please stop - you're fighting a losing battle. This board is full of doubters of agencies - and in most cases, rightly so. It's a sad reflection that they think that an onsite recruiters are the way forwards. Don't you realise these people are agents who failed? Do you REALLY want them fighting your corner, when they also have a corporate objective to reduce costs, and therefore your rate??

I do however fully understand why this is the case. Ultimately the majority of contractors have been burned by the rogue, underhand, and down right decietful practices that the big boys employ - seriously the majority of those who work in these places are nothing but glorified estate agents.

The reality is that there are companies out there who are good for contractors. We sell you right, represent you in the way you want to be represented, and of course, because our contacts are relationships, not just database names, also mean that we get the roles that are really interesting and exciting.

I long for the day that the employment business wakes up to RPO, Managed Vendor, Neutral Vendor, and PSL bulltulip, and realised that the ones who make the difference are the ones who really go the extra mile to deliver EXACTLY what they need. When they do the sums of the time and effort expelled by senior managers which is wasted by these numbskulls, they'll realise that engaging a specialist, and building a relationship with them makes hiring interims/contractors easy.

TAV

[DodgyAgent]

Well HR should be doing much of this anyway and even if a company has no HR people then in the "current climate" maybe it would idea to spend a few minutes apply the same CV filtering that agents do, make a few calls and then they would be at the interview stage all without any agents being involved.

I dont think its that much of a burden, and if you're filling a role that will be taken for six months or more its really insignificant ... IMHO

Well clearly it IS a burden otherwise why on earth would they use agencies if it was not? The great thing about market forces is that they have their own way of making things as efficient as possible. So when divs like you come on here whining why something doesnt work quite as you like it, then either come up with a better idea or spare us the whine.

[Ruse]

PZZ,

Please stop - you're fighting a losing battle. This board is full of doubters of agencies - and in most cases, rightly so. It's a sad reflection that they think that an onsite recruiters are the way forwards. Don't you realise these people are agents who failed? Do you REALLY want them fighting your corner, when they also have a corporate objective to reduce costs, and therefore your rate??

I do however fully understand why this is the case. Ultimately the majority of contractors have been burned by the rogue, underhand, and down right decietful practices that the big boys employ - seriously the majority of those who work in these places are nothing but glorified estate agents.

The reality is that there are companies out there who are good for contractors. We sell you right, represent you in the way you want to be represented, and of course, because our contacts are relationships, not just database names, also mean that we get the roles that are really interesting and exciting.

I long for the day that the employment business wakes up to RPO, Managed Vendor, Neutral Vendor, and PSL bulltulip, and realised that the ones who make the difference are the ones who really go the extra mile to deliver EXACTLY what they need. When they do the sums of the time and effort expelled by senior managers which is wasted by these numbskulls, they'll realise that engaging a specialist, and building a relationship with them makes hiring interims/contractors easy.

TAV

Good post. Of the agencies I have dealt with there are about 3/4 which I think are good, reliable and in the main do not feed me lots of bull. Two of theses are small specialist agencies, the other 2 are large multi-nationals but have specialist divisions where the agents are knowledgeable about the sector and do not disappear every couple of months to be replaced by Estate Agent rejects. When a role comes out I always try and wait to see if one of these agencies picks up the role.

I have been on the bench for a while and of necessity have been dealing with a lot of agencies. Do you know why in about the last month or two there has been a particular surge of "new business" type agencies, the majority who I have never heard of using all kinds of underhand tactics to try and wheedle out of you the names of companies your CV has gone in to and to steal clients from other agencies ? Without exception they have all sounded like the kinds of guys that come to your door to get you to change your gas/elec supply and equally persistent and unpleasant.

I do realize this is nothing new and goes on all the time but I have noticed a particularly big spike in their activity recently.

[pzz76077]

PZZ,

Please stop - you're fighting a losing battle. This board is full of doubters of agencies - and in most cases, rightly so. It's a sad reflection that they think that an onsite recruiters are the way forwards. Don't you realise these people are agents who failed? Do you REALLY want them fighting your corner, when they also have a corporate objective to reduce costs, and therefore your rate??

I do however fully understand why this is the case. Ultimately the majority of contractors have been burned by the rogue, underhand, and down right decietful practices that the big boys employ - seriously the majority of those who work in these places are nothing but glorified estate agents.

The reality is that there are companies out there who are good for contractors. We sell you right, represent you in the way you want to be represented, and of course, because our contacts are relationships, not just database names, also mean that we get the roles that are really interesting and exciting.

I long for the day that the employment business wakes up to RPO, Managed Vendor, Neutral Vendor, and PSL bulltulip, and realised that the ones who make the difference are the ones who really go the extra mile to deliver EXACTLY what they need. When they do the sums of the time and effort expelled by senior managers which is wasted by these numbskulls, they'll realise that engaging a specialist, and building a relationship with them makes hiring interims/contractors easy.

TAV

Thanks for you long post <field:name>,
Im doing nothing more that pointing out that the OP has signed a contract on agreed terms and is now showing remorse due to his poor negotiating skills and business acumen.

The IT contracting market is no different to any other market: there are winners and losers.

The OP is undoubtedly a loser and his agent is a winner. There a no winners without losers.

The old adage: if you cant stand the heat, keep out of the kitchen is just as appropriate here as anywhere else.

The OP is way out of his depth thinking that you only need to be a developer to be a successful contractor when in fact it is only one of the lesser skills required.

Business is a brutal and friendless world that has no time for people like the OP.

If anyone thinks that an agent owes them anything, then they are in the wrong business and are doomed to permieland for all of time.

PS: for those of you that did not manage to read my earlier posts, I felt like you 10 years or so ago and decided to find a way to find clients without agents and was successful. If you feel the same, sort yourself out if you can and save the flames. The world is warm enough already apparently.

PZZ

[Brussels Slumdog]

Client has got a bad deal from the agency

The client was prepared to pay £300 a day for the job to be done and
he ends up with a unhappy contractor at £200 a day so he has been ripped off by the agent.
Maybe the reason you were awarded the contract was because no one with your skills was willing to work for less than £250 day.
If the agent had been prepared to pay £250 day there would have been
maybe 50 other applicants for the position. The other 50 told the agents
what to do with £200 a day.
It was their war chest against your desparate need for a job.
If the client finds out that he is paying £50 a day too much he might drop
the agent next time and use the HR department

Read "The Grapes of Wrath" John Steinbeck to understand how deparate
people become to work.

[minestrone]

Read "The Grapes of Wrath" John Steinbeck to understand how deparate
people become to work.

It is a work of fiction based upon a situation early in the last century about agricultural workers. Hardly applicable today.

It is a bit like me writing on a job spec "see that C3PO guy from star wars, I want one of those in 3 months"

[thunderlizard]

& read 'Of Mice And Men' to get an idea of how quickly an agent will get rid of you if he thinks you're becoming an expensive burden.

[minestrone]

& read 'Of Mice And Men' to get an idea of how quickly an agent will get rid of you if he thinks you're becoming an expensive burden.

I learned to program after watching war games.

[Ardesco]

Anyway this is kind of besides the original point of the thread. In my view, if an agency attempts to secure large margins at the expense of the contractor undertaking the work then it borders on unethical business practice. In the future I for one will be directing all of my energy into securing direct contracts to aviod this sort of nonsense.

How do you think most of the rich list made their fortunes???

If Sir Alan Sugar worried about being ethical in his business practices do you think he would be where he is today?

Welcome to the fun of running your own business. At the end of the day you valued yourself at £200 a day, you bought the agents patter and you signed the contract. If there is anybody you should be pissed off with, it is yourself.

Best thing to do right now is use the information you now have to leverage a big pay rise at renewal time, think of your current term as a loss leader to secure a more lucrative deal in X months time, or you could just go back to the nice safe and secure permie world.....

[thunderlizard]

Quite. When agents talk about excessive margins (and they do!), it's not to do with ethics. It's because clients and contractors usually find out, and they don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.


But dead right to respond by doing direct contracts. They're the only ones with any potential value in them.