Reply to: NHS again

[Toad]

just a random question, are you a Freemason?

Currently working for the NHS. The IT department is full of them.

[chris79]

Well I can tell you that I am starting a contract next week as a security expert in and NHS department is Swindon. They didn't ask me ever about previous NHS experience. I do have a first degree in medical matters so it might have helped me perhaps.

My first degree is in medical matters too, but I don't even get a phone call back from the agents.. just a random question, are you a Freemason?

[mrdonuts]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6741241.ece

looks like all you NHS bods will be okay

[chris79]

"Get something done that they've been giving excuses for non-delivery for years"

Part of the culture is remembering that the NHS is full of job-for-life-ers - not just within the NHS as a whole, but within the same NHS Trust area.

In the NHS, anyone coming in from the outside that shows you up is a threat to your entire life plan. Suddenly those 20 safe years to retirement seems in danger - and that threat is treated far more seriously than any superbug or pandemic.

I agree with what you've put there, but I also think that generic reasons could include the fact that "our way is the best, we've done it like this for years and this guy has been here 5 minutes so it can't be better".. Also the 'time-served' ranking system in public sector where you're classed as being higher ranking/authority to those on similar levels due to longer time served.. Anyone remember the film Scum with Archer?...

I've also found public sector mentality to be that of anyone outside the organisation is inferior, and their view/suggestions are unwecome or worthless.

Private sector you put in time, effort, show some spark of imagination and the risk reward is the company will see you as a great asset = promotions, bonuses, higher pay, respect..

Public sector if you do the same you'll only upset the guy sitting above you in the career ladder.. hence why people become total jobsworths and quite often take the easy route.

[RichardCranium]

something about something

Another couple of Cobras over here, when you're ready.

[chetty]

Well I can tell you that I am starting a contract next week as a security expert in and NHS department is Swindon. They didn't ask me ever about previous NHS experience. I do have a first degree in medical matters so it might have helped me perhaps.

[Old Greg]

I'm an ex-NHS permie and now contractor with NHS end clients. My client is actually pretty good (and therefore unusual) at employing and using contractors without NHS backgrounds in roles where understanding of clinical practice, the 'business side' (financial flows, strategic and political environments etc.) are not needed. Culture is important but is over-played I think in many cases. But some contracts just do need NHS experience - if you don't have it, you couldn't do my job.

I get regular calls and emails for agents at the moment with roles. A couple of them have said that they have stopped advertising as 'no NHS experience' doesn't prevent people without NHS experience from calling in.

As far as workload is concerned, it can be very cushy, but at the moment I am working some crazy long hours (sometimes I have to come back to work after lunch), that I simply wouldn't bother putting in in the private sector - it does help that I'm engaged in a piece of work that will actually save lives rather than some madcap national IT nonsense.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Which is it though, is it that they don't know IT, or don't know hospitals? Surely there's a guy who sits in the middle (BA) and is able to translate between the two systems into functional requirements?

I think its that they don't know the hospitals, I suppose its the lingo, the work practises and the IT systems that are around and probably not being able to find out who is responsible for anything - good question though I'll have to ask my mate when I see him next!

[MPwannadecentincome]

WHS

The only time I jacked in a contract early was with the NHS. I handed in notice after only 1 month, it was so retarded I was getting so demotivated and heart palpatations with the boredom. An IT dept of 35 people for an organisation of 350 users!! Crazy. No work to do. Bundles of red tape, management who are commitment-shy, work-shy, power-tripping clowns.

Its only our tax £££££ they're spending!

[centurian]

If you go in all suited and booted with your high pressure pharma/banking experience and get stuck in your gonna piss every person you speak to for the entire contract.

"Get something done that they've been giving excuses for non-delivery for years"

Part of the culture is remembering that the NHS is full of job-for-life-ers - not just within the NHS as a whole, but within the same NHS Trust area.

In our environment, if a new contractor comes into ClientCo and starts showing us up, our first thought is "the twunt", but we quickly recognise that it isn't his fault we've missed a trick. There is a gap in our skills and we go about sorting it out. Failing that, we move on and learn from the experience.

In the NHS, anyone coming in from the outside that shows you up is a threat to your entire life plan. Suddenly those 20 safe years to retirement seems in danger - and that threat is treated far more seriously than any superbug or pandemic.

[JoJoGabor]

The thing your missing here is what experience they want you to have. Everyone is saying skill level this, technology level that. The biggest issue on the NHS contract is the CULTURE! It's so very different from private sector... and other public sector for that matter it's very easy to fail. If you go in all suited and booted with your high pressure pharma/banking experience and get stuck in your gonna piss every person you speak to for the entire contract. That is NOT how they work. They therefor need people to come in with the right experience of the NHS.. not skill level, not knowledge... experience.

Trust me, its a really weird place to work. I had the pleasure of a 2 day induction via an outsource contract before i went direct with NHS and it was an eye opener.

Just the fact your getting your back up about the NHS experience requirement means your likely to fail. It's all about chillax there with the politics and the hard pressed, under paid, phsycially/verbally abused staff, not hammering the project through leaving a trail of dead bodies behind you (if you excuse the pun).

Keep plugging on though.. there is a growing set of people that believe they need the public sector oomph and are aware they skill base is stagnating.

WHS

The only time I jacked in a contract early was with the NHS. I handed in notice after only 1 month, it was so retarded I was getting so demotivated and heart palpatations with the boredom. An IT dept of 35 people for an organisation of 350 users!! Crazy. No work to do. Bundles of red tape, management who are commitment-shy, work-shy, power-tripping clowns.

[malvolio]

Ermm...

For one thing I worked Health Sector with ICL back in the dark ages,implementing patient records systems and realted IT services into hospitals and clinics. Come to that my first job was in biomedical research.

More pertinently I've been marrried to a NHS worker for 37 years. She is now at the tpop of her particular discipline and as much manager as she is technician. I have several friends in the NHS and even more who used to be but who have moved on. I think I undertand the culture quite well.

Cultures are different wherever you work. MOD is nothing like the Department of Justice, banking is nothing like general insurance which is nothing like investment banking, manufacturing companies are invariably unique... Thing is, I move between these cultures almost annually; learning a new one is simpler than finding out how the coffee machine works.

HTH

[northernladuk]

The thing your missing here is what experience they want you to have. Everyone is saying skill level this, technology level that. The biggest issue on the NHS contract is the CULTURE! It's so very different from private sector... and other public sector for that matter it's very easy to fail. If you go in all suited and booted with your high pressure pharma/banking experience and get stuck in your gonna piss every person you speak to for the entire contract. That is NOT how they work. They therefor need people to come in with the right experience of the NHS.. not skill level, not knowledge... experience.

Trust me, its a really weird place to work. I had the pleasure of a 2 day induction via an outsource contract before i went direct with NHS and it was an eye opener.

Just the fact your getting your back up about the NHS experience requirement means your likely to fail. It's all about chillax there with the politics and the hard pressed, under paid, phsycially/verbally abused staff, not hammering the project through leaving a trail of dead bodies behind you (if you excuse the pun).

Keep plugging on though.. there is a growing set of people that believe they need the public sector oomph and are aware they skill base is stagnating.

[Zippy]

Which is it though, is it that they don't know IT, or don't know hospitals? Surely there's a guy who sits in the middle (BA) and is able to translate between the two systems into functional requirements?

I suppose the reason might be that they want people to have an understanding of how critical some of these systems are? (and they are old, and knackered and you need to have the patience of a saint to handle the red tape and occasional jobsworth)

[malvolio]

Which is it though, is it that they don't know IT, or don't know hospitals? Surely there's a guy who sits in the middle (BA) and is able to translate between the two systems into functional requirements?

What requirements? Most (if not all) patient management systems are based on a model drawn up by QEH in the 80s and that was based on a hotel booking system form the 70s. There's nothing magic about it. There are even better confidentiality management systems out there in banking world. And how hard is it to implement a fairly simple point-and-click system and teach a dozen people - who are already fairly IT literate - how to use it?

This myth that only people who know a vertical have any chance of working and delivering in it is getting increasingly stupid. One day someone will realise that recycling the same failed "professionals" within their own little world is perhaps why none of their systems work.