Reply to: How to deal with pimp games..???

[blacjac]

Good idea Tim, how do you put that across to the agent diplomatically without pissing him/her off? Believe it or not I prefer to have a good relation with my agent, after all potentially I may be dealing with him/her for years!

I wouldn't bother trying to sugar coat it. If the agent is ripping me off, I want them to know that I know about it.

There are enough bad agents around that if you happen to have an honest one, he won't mind being asked this question.

[zamzummim]

Good idea Tim, how do you put that across to the agent diplomatically without pissing him/her off? Believe it or not I prefer to have a good relation with my agent, after all potentially I may be dealing with him/her for years!

[tim123]

Guys,

ISecond Case
Agreed a rate with agency & had excellent interview with client. Surely will be on top of the list based on interview. Now here too agency want to lower agreed rate after the interview apparently " due to mkt conditions" suddenly..! And want to reduce rate..!! Surely this is agency game & trying to milk maximum out of the contract.
thoughts please..

If an agent comes back to me with the "you need to reduce your rate to win the contract" line, I always make it clear to the agent that I will only do this if I personally have confirmation from the client that it is him seeing this reduction.

tim

[herman_g]

My first UK assignment started that way.

After the interview, the agent informed me at the last minute the rate just went down 40 per day. I told him no problem, I will accept that if he puts it in writing.

Once onsite, comparison of notes with other contractors proved it all to be inaccurate and he also, apparently, exceeded the maximum agreed margin an agent could make at the client.

I called him on it. He "looked into it", promptly adjusted the rate, plus paid the difference to the first day of billing ( first time that happened ).

I asked him what he drank ( whiskey ) and bought him a very good bottle next time I was abroad.

The mutual respect gained by this exchange has made this agent, to this day, the closest to a friend that an agent can possibly get ( well, you know what I mean ).

[Pogle]

I've never accepted a cut after interview. I've never lost a job by refusing the cut.

Lucky you, I've lost 2 in the last 12 months.

[Darren_Test]

Yes preferred or sole supplier agencies have better bargaining power, which is why you always try to find out if they are such so you know what you are up against (good way to tell this before you even apply is to see if any other agencys offering role, if they are I never drop my rate)

Basically it's a game of bluffing, agent knows more than you because he knows the clients position, but he does not know how low you are willing to go before you will decide it is not worth it (hence why you NEVER give a direct answer to "What is your lowest rate"). But on flip side, you do know your minimum and need to be willing to walk away if agent is not willing to match your price

Good example, Role was advertised at a certain rate, applied and interviewed for the position. Agency came back offering original rate minus 15%, but after seeing what role entailed I was not to hot on it and was going to walk away, especially as had another offer on the table, but client was eager to hire me.

After much back and forth got 30% more than initial max rate advertised with 2 days a week working from home

On the other hand, another time refused to budge on rate and client/agency withdrew the offer

It basically is like a game of poker, and he who bluffs the best without pushing the others to far wins

So Wise..:-)

Big trouble is in analysing where to push where to bow..Some times agency/client have multiple choices & if you push too much & end up loosing the role altogether...

Some cases you might be the "HOT choice" but may accept agency cut with out knowing that...

Well.......this is the real poker...Not even knowing own strength..not just opponent's ..

[Not So Wise]

Yes..real negotiation needed only if offer is in place..But the fact is that agent only can provide you information on client's offer I..So he can hide/delay that info as long as he wanted and also he can utilise that information cleverly & manipulate for his advantage..!!..

Say even after client nod for a candidate, agent can still pretend by saying "client is still undecided, and requested to see if there is any chance of rate negotiation..??" I am sure if there is a preferred agency he could play lot of dirty games even if there is an offer..It may be dangerous for the agency in a mutli-agency scenario.

Can they...???

Yes preferred or sole supplier agencies have better bargaining power, which is why you always try to find out if they are such so you know what you are up against (good way to tell this before you even apply is to see if any other agencys offering role, if they are I never drop my rate)

Basically it's a game of bluffing, agent knows more than you because he knows the clients position, but he does not know how low you are willing to go before you will decide it is not worth it (hence why you NEVER give a direct answer to "What is your lowest rate"). But on flip side, you do know your minimum and need to be willing to walk away if agent is not willing to match your price

Good example, Role was advertised at a certain rate, applied and interviewed for the position. Agency came back offering original rate minus 15%, but after seeing what role entailed I was not to hot on it and was going to walk away, especially as had another offer on the table, but client was eager to hire me.

After much back and forth got 30% more than initial max rate advertised with 2 days a week working from home

On the other hand, another time refused to budge on rate and client/agency withdrew the offer

It basically is like a game of poker, and he who bluffs the best without pushing the others to far wins

[Fred Bloggs]

Even recent times..?? where some one else could undercut you..??

If I was in the market now I'd have to reduce my rate because it was agreed 15 months ago at the top of the market but I would make it clear from the very outset what my bottom dollar is. Someone can undercut you in any market at any time.

[Svalbaard]

Had this happen to me at my current client co.

Agreed rate with agency, attended interview, subsequently offered role through agency on condition that I take a 10% rate cut (as demanded by the client co. apparently).

Luckily, I had the interviewers phone number so I called him direct to query this and found that no demand to reduce rate had been made.

I went back to agency with this information and was after some initial resistance re-offered original rate.

Turns out that the agency had offered me the day rate that had been offered by the company and had forgotten to deduct their margin. Idiots.

Happy to name and shame agency via PM if you are interested.

[Darren_Test]

From what I am hearing agencies are really playing hardball at the moment, trying to maximize margins above and beyond

My rule of thumb, avoid all discussion of rates until position is offered* as before that point you are negotiating from a position of weakness

*Only exception is if advertised role did not even hint at rate and agency does not give a ball park during initial call, then I just ask for rough ballpark quote to make sure we are not wasting each others time. If agency push's to know my rate I always say "it will depend on what the role entails"

Yes..real negotiation needed only if offer is in place..But the fact is that agent only can provide you information on client's offer I..So he can hide/delay that info as long as he wanted and also he can utilise that information cleverly & manipulate for his advantage..!!..

Say even after client nod for a candidate, agent can still pretend by saying "client is still undecided, and requested to see if there is any chance of rate negotiation..??" I am sure if there is a preferred agency he could play lot of dirty games even if there is an offer..It may be dangerous for the agency in a mutli-agency scenario.

Can they...???

[Darren_Test]

A business card in the meeting is ok. But I wouldn't make direct contact from home.

I am not intend to call client directly..(BTW I did that once & got royally screwed. that client haven't considered my CV after my fatefull SMS..you could refer one of my previous posts on that..!!)..But gives option to the client to contact me directly if they decide to ...may be now ..or may be in the future..if a client donot want hassle of agents in the future. Not sure giving business card will do any damage ...

It might be bit unfair to the agency as they removed contact info from CV & submitted to client to avoid any direct client-candidate interaction..thats the only worry..If the client & agency are in really good terms it might look odd if the candidate give business card to client with the intention that client can contact directly if needed...

[HeadOfTesting]

I wouldn't - refer to previous post by headoftesting.
Direct calling the client = potential troublemaker.

A business card in the meeting is ok. But I wouldn't make direct contact from home.

[ace00]

............
Is it fair to do that..?? I normally give my card only if the other party gives his card..

I wouldn't - refer to previous post by headoftesting.
Direct calling the client = potential troublemaker.

[Darren_Test]

You've had interviews - why do you not have direct contact with client?

Well..Is it fair to give business card to the interviewer at the end of interview..

My business card just gives Name, email & mobile number no other details. its professionally made & of high quality stuff..

Is it fair to do that..?? I normally give my card only if the other party gives his card..

[HeadOfTesting]

[QUOTE=...this can give agent opportunity to play games behind the scenes to maximize margin but if they get caught client will be pissed[/QUOTE]

Some will be pissed but many won't care - more often than not the hiring manager has bigger fish to fry.