Reply to: Bye Bye to Brolly??

[Shimano105]

I agree PM, much less hassle which was my original point that got shot down in flames.

Anyhow I'll have to confess that I am considering going back to a Ltd co. simply because I am looking at doing some non-agency type stuff (which may or may not be profitable, we'll have to see) for local businesses etc..

Obviously a brolly would be no good whatsoever for this type of work so I will probably have to get back into all this Ltd co. malarky again.

[original PM]

Having worked for a brolly for 5 years (actually for the brolly not through it) and then ran my own ltd for a year (so far) I have to say that running via brolly is so much easier and hassle free.

But yes you can get more from running your own ltd company - and this is the way to go if you are in contracting for the long term (and you also wish to actually run a business correctly rather than just sitting around moaning about agencies not getting you jobs)

The few local accountants I spoke to did not seem to have a clue about running a small business and the rules around being inside and outside of IR35 - as such they could not really offer an accounting model I was comfortable with - so I contacted HMRC went through what i was doing and I now do my accounts myself (saving lots of money - however I do not bother with flat rate vat as the company itself is only a sideline and does not earn that much)

With regards to IR35 it is still a grey area and if investigated you will often find it is actual working practices that are reviewed - standard contracts generally get thrown out of the window.

anyway my two pence worth.

[malvolio]

Type in all the rude words you know and you'll find out.

All the rude words you know

Nope, still can't see it... tulip!

[NotAllThere]

Type in all the rude words you know and you'll find out.

[PinkPoshRat]

If you don't tell me, I'll sulk

[RichardCranium]

ok, so I'm new here, but... wtf is tulip?

Newbies!

You are too young to know.

[malvolio]

The numbers are as provided by PCG's insurers. As far as I understand them, these are cases that they have represented at some point in one of the relevant appeals processes. So 1472 (or whatever) are cases that have started and been closed without IR35 being found applicable, bearing in mind that quite a lot of them were closed off by a letter saying HMRC weren't going to take the inquiry any further. At which precise point in the process is totally irrelevant, HMRC's case was not proven.

And for way it's worth, QDOS have their own numbers, running at roughly the same ratio (in fact rather better, since AFAIK they haven't had a loss fpr some time).

So basically I believe the numbers say precisely what they appear to say: almost all IR35 cases are without merit.

[ASB]

Last time I looked, 1472 wins, 6 losses...

There is a certain amount of spin there.....

Of the 1472 how many of those were actually contested by the revenue. i.e. to be absolutely plain of the 1,472 "victories" how many of these were decided by the special commissionerers, the general commissioners or beyond.

I do agree that there is an obvious pattern though. Where somebody has had working practices believed to be outsaide IR35 then the vast majority of these cases are in fact conceded by HMRC as a result of the advisers input.

Further you do not state how many (if any) cases that the underlying insurers have recommended the taxpayer concedes. It could be 1, it could be 10,000. Of course the organisation you represent is not in any way accountable to me, as I am not longer a member, but the figures you tout to suggest there is a 99% chance of being found outside are misleading. They do not say that at all.

[PinkPoshRat]

ok, so I'm new here, but... wtf is tulip?

[malvolio]

Last time I looked, 1472 wins, 6 losses...

[TykeMerc]

It seems to me that this rule is rather vague. And that there is little you can do to protect yourself against it.

That's very much understating the case. To be honest not even HMRC actually understand IR35 hence they lose almost every IR35 case that comes to court.
Mal has the figures on IR35 cases won/lost.

[DocP]

Yeah tell me about it

[NotAllThere]

Yeah, I've been overseas for a while. Just trying to get my head around which approach is best to take

Er... back overseas?

[DocP]

New

Yeah, I've been overseas for a while. Just trying to get my head around which approach is best to take

[malvolio]

It seems to me that this rule is rather vague. And that there is little you can do to protect yourself against it.

You're new here, aren't you...