Impartial help/advice desperately needed

[Old Greg]

Hi everyone this is my first post on here and I was hoping for a bit of advice/your thoughts on the situation I am currently in.

I was made redundant from a permanent job in August last year where I was a Service and Quality Manager for three years. My job involved project managing telecom installations and as I really loved this area of work I decided to focus on getting a job within this area and so a week later I began working on a temporary contract at an NHS organisation as a programme and project coordinator.

Last month the job I was doing became available as a permanent job and was advertised on a salary range of £20,710 - £26,839 which is band 5.
Prior to this happening, I had reached the point where I could not afford to carry on my contract here due to the salary I was being paid (£9.70per hour). After tax I am coming out with £280 per week which is A LOT less then what I was previously earning and so I have been struggling paying bills, mortgage etc.

I decided to apply for the job and was successful in being offered it. Due to the fact the company is NHS related, Agenda for Change applies which means that as I am currently external to the NHS I was offered the lowest range of £20k. Although I am on less than this at the moment, if I was to take a permanent job it would need to be for more than what they are offering for me to survive. I am not unrealistic and do not expect to be earning the amount I was on in my previous job.

The other issue is that as I have been working here for 9 months I have additional responsibility then what was on the job description and am working at senior project coordinator level and I have been asked to continue working at this level.
Now senior project coordinators get paid band 6 which salary range is £24,831 - £33,436!
I have spoken to the programme directors about getting the work I am currently doing added to my job description, however HR have come back to them and said that if this happens then the job would need to be rebanded and therefore would need to go out to advert again!!!
HR have also now said that according to Agenda for Change the most they can increase my starting salary is by 3 increments which would mean a starting salary of £23,019.

This has all been going on for over a month now and so far no more progress has been made. I really cannot afford to keep working for much longer and so am considering contracting (as opposed to temping).
My partner works in recruitment and so I know what the current market is like with fewer jobs and more applicants but I’m seriously considering going down this avenue and have been exploring jobs/agencies etc.
The project I am working on has many contractors working on it who have been most helpful and have also said that they think this would be a better route for me.

I would be looking for project support work, such as a project coordinator, project assistant, project officer etc.
Since working here I have passed Prince2 and am now qualified as a Prince2 Practitioner (although I know this doesn’t necessarily mean much) and I have gained extensive experience in project related activities and have also been doing project planning.

What do you all think……..

For those of you in contracts are the companies you work at hiring contract staff for my level of work or only permies?
For anyone out of work, am I mad for thinking this?
I’m sorry it’s such a long thread, I would just really appreciate some impartial advice
Thanks in advance

Hi Taz

I've been contracting for 2 years with NHS clients, following nearly 10 years as an NHS employee. If you have a PRINCE2 qualification and NHS experience, you're in a pretty good position as the NHS is still recruiting contractors, but not in the numbers it used to - and they usually demand NHS experience, making it very difficult to break in for other contractors. For a start, go to the job boards and do a search with the keyword NHS. Look at the 'Jobs' link on this site and follow the advice on Contractor CVs and emphasise your understanding and experience of NHS business. Put that CV on monster.co.uk - I get loads of calls by agents who can't be bothered to advertise as they get so many calls from benched contractors without NHS experience. Read these boards and get your head round what contracting actually means and how it differs from employment and temping.

Best of luck and let us know how it works out.

OG

[Taz]

I'm going to go for it!

Been thinking about it all weekend and have spoken to my partner in depth about it so I need to get applying for some of the jobs that i've seen and take it from there.
Thanks for your advice, i'll keep you updated

[cojak]

good luck with finding a new role, most people here wont get out of bed for £200 a day so there should be a glut of those jobs around.

You'd be surprised..

[dozer]

interesting i thought the ukraine was part of the eu. maybe i can beat the price down with this knew knowledge.

good luck with finding a new role, most people here wont get out of bed for £200 a day so there should be a glut of those jobs around.

[expat]

Does your Ukrainian have a work permit/Visa for this country? Have you registered her with the Home Office? Not being funny but you are one of her employers and Ukraine are not in the EU so papers must be in order if not you are liable and I think the last count was up to £25000.00 fine for employing an illegal immigrant.

OT: I doubt if dozer is actually employing the cleaner; she will be self-employed. The cleaner may or not be legit in that role, but dozer is only a customer, not an employer.

[uky kozak]

my ukranian cleaner earns more than that and i dont have the heart to sack her even being on the bench.

my advice is to look for a new role.

Does your Ukrainian have a work permit/Visa for this country? Have you registered her with the Home Office? Not being funny but you are one of her employers and Ukraine are not in the EU so papers must be in order if not you are liable and I think the last count was up to £25000.00 fine for employing an illegal immigrant.

[Fred Bloggs]

If you take the NHS staff job, join the union straight away and after 6 months raise merry hell. You will get the rate for the job but you will be unpopular. Otherwise, Cojak gives good advice here. Good luck.

[cojak]

I have seen some jobs posted on job boards that I’m going to apply for but can anyone recommend any good agencies to register with?

Thanks for your advice so far, much appreciated

We're talking contracting here, not temping - there isn't a Kellys Services type agency that finds work for us.

We have to go out there and find it for ourselves. We look on various jobsites, apply to various agencies for various contracts and use an umbrella company (for whom we work) or our own Ltd company to work through the agent to the end-client. (Yes I know there are other ways of doing this, but let's keep this simple, shall we?)

In fact, CUK has an excellent jobs section and a search page that will search through different websites for you. Give it a go.

HTH.

PS- Try pushing the ISO 9001 courses and experience - they're a good match for PMO work with companies that are interested in that kind of thing.

[Epiphone]

Not sure what agenda for change is but it sound something like they pay incoming staff less than current staff.

If you want the original job try and negotiate up from the 20k. The advantage is you'll get a job description for that role so you can drop the extra parts you've taken on thus giving a 'fairer' salary.

Once you've got your feet under the table you can then look to apply for better paid internal positions.

If they won't raise the initial 20k or expect you to do extra duties for no pay they're taking the piss and treating you with disrespect. Is that the sort of company you want to work for?

[Taz]

I don’t have any formal qualifications in Service and Quality Management; I did go on two courses in my last job – Implementing a Quality Management System to ISO 9001 and Internal Auditor ISO 9001.

The company I’ve been temping at paid for me to do the Prince2 course when I first started here and I have found it useful in understanding the terminology and methodology that’s being used on the project I’ve been working on.

To be honest I didn’t know there were Programme and Project Support Office qualifications but after reading Cojak’s post I had a look on Google and have seen there is an ISEB certificate in this.

I’m working with a hell of a lot of contractors at the moment and they keep telling me to look at contracting - they’ve said that I’m the best project coordinator they’ve worked with in and should be on more then I’m getting which is what’s spurned me into thinking I should go for it.

I have seen some jobs posted on job boards that I’m going to apply for but can anyone recommend any good agencies to register with?

Thanks for your advice so far, much appreciated

[zara_backdog]

Lots of PMO stuff in the midlands - mainly NHS pay rangins from £140 - £350pd depending on the role ! All saying must have NHS experiance

Have not looked else where - put start looking around - I'm sure you could get something better!

[cojak]

Right - first of all forget about trying to bump the current permie offer any higher, I think they've gone as far as they want to go so £23,019: take it or leave it.

Next, what qualifications have you got in Service and Quality Management? This is where the money might be.

Project Support work then? Sorry to tell you but you've taken the wrong qualifications for that. I've met stacks of PSOs with Prince2 qualifications and mostly they've been useless. But every one with Programme and Project Support Office qualifications has been at least competent, because they weren't wannabe Project Managers.

However, you've been doing the work and presume that you know what you are doing. If you like this kind of work I would advise that you aim for PMO Manager, again a good PMO Manager gets a reasonable day rate and generally are always 'in contract' because they get picked up and carried to the next project by grateful Programme Managers.

[dozer]

my ukranian cleaner earns more than that and i dont have the heart to sack her even being on the bench.

my advice is to look for a new role.

[cojak]

No flaming on this one. I'm just astonished at the rates and numbers in this post.

I've had to read the post twice and I still haven't quite got it.

DO NOT temp - you have no rights and very poor pay. Go immediately into contracting (if you can) - you'll still have no rights but you are your own boss (literally) and the rates are better than £280 after tax.

I'm going to try again and will post later...

[Taz]

Hi everyone this is my first post on here and I was hoping for a bit of advice/your thoughts on the situation I am currently in.

I was made redundant from a permanent job in August last year where I was a Service and Quality Manager for three years. My job involved project managing telecom installations and as I really loved this area of work I decided to focus on getting a job within this area and so a week later I began working on a temporary contract at an NHS organisation as a programme and project coordinator.

Last month the job I was doing became available as a permanent job and was advertised on a salary range of £20,710 - £26,839 which is band 5.
Prior to this happening, I had reached the point where I could not afford to carry on my contract here due to the salary I was being paid (£9.70per hour). After tax I am coming out with £280 per week which is A LOT less then what I was previously earning and so I have been struggling paying bills, mortgage etc.

I decided to apply for the job and was successful in being offered it. Due to the fact the company is NHS related, Agenda for Change applies which means that as I am currently external to the NHS I was offered the lowest range of £20k. Although I am on less than this at the moment, if I was to take a permanent job it would need to be for more than what they are offering for me to survive. I am not unrealistic and do not expect to be earning the amount I was on in my previous job.

The other issue is that as I have been working here for 9 months I have additional responsibility then what was on the job description and am working at senior project coordinator level and I have been asked to continue working at this level.
Now senior project coordinators get paid band 6 which salary range is £24,831 - £33,436!
I have spoken to the programme directors about getting the work I am currently doing added to my job description, however HR have come back to them and said that if this happens then the job would need to be rebanded and therefore would need to go out to advert again!!!
HR have also now said that according to Agenda for Change the most they can increase my starting salary is by 3 increments which would mean a starting salary of £23,019.

This has all been going on for over a month now and so far no more progress has been made. I really cannot afford to keep working for much longer and so am considering contracting (as opposed to temping).
My partner works in recruitment and so I know what the current market is like with fewer jobs and more applicants but I’m seriously considering going down this avenue and have been exploring jobs/agencies etc.
The project I am working on has many contractors working on it who have been most helpful and have also said that they think this would be a better route for me.

I would be looking for project support work, such as a project coordinator, project assistant, project officer etc.
Since working here I have passed Prince2 and am now qualified as a Prince2 Practitioner (although I know this doesn’t necessarily mean much) and I have gained extensive experience in project related activities and have also been doing project planning.

What do you all think……..

For those of you in contracts are the companies you work at hiring contract staff for my level of work or only permies?
For anyone out of work, am I mad for thinking this?
I’m sorry it’s such a long thread, I would just really appreciate some impartial advice
Thanks in advance