Reply to: Contract Teminated with immediate effect - HELP!

[BrilloPad]

I have had to provide references for my last two contracts (both financial for banks) and I think that many other companies now require references from someone who is still employed by a previous company. have also had CRB checks.

I think that this is because of other contractors who have got into places using that same CV that many have.

I have never seen any evidence of this. I have been asked - and my reply "would trhe bank give me a reference if I requested?".

So far everyone has accepted a reference from my previous agent - at the end of each contract I asked the agent for a written reference.

Last written reference I got from a bank was 1992.

[jlay]

References

Contractors who give references to agents are mugs. You're giving them leads, not refs. Clients, never need references for contractors so it does not matter. Even if they did you just give them the name of a mate who can back you up.

I have had to provide references for my last two contracts (both financial for banks) and I think that many other companies now require references from someone who is still employed by a previous company. have also had CRB checks.

I think that this is because of other contractors who have got into places using that same CV that many have.

[Turion]

I've been there myself and with experience through hindsight my advice is to move on. You have a real danger of running up huge legal fees with no gain. Everybody will 'foul up' or be victimised at some stage and as a contractor you cannot expect to always fit in. Accept it, just look for a new contract and in a few months you will have wondered what all the fuss was about.

Here speaks Ken Dodds agent, who having invoiced for the termination period will sneakily trouser the proceeds (BUT only if Ken doesn't make a fuss).

[Cyberman]

Apologies for the delay, but I have been without internet....

Many thanks for the advice in the earlier replies. I have made an appointment to see a solicitor to get their advice - I certainly think I need it.

I knew that what I posted would raise some further questions regarding 'what really happened' etc but what I posted is all I knew and all I still know. The words 'behaviour to women' came from the agent in a phone call - they were reading selected extracts from the email - and she wouldn't elaborate. I genuinely have no idea what this is all about, but I am sure of some things: The agent was feeding me one line about notice periods etc whilst having conversations with the client about how to avoid it.
The agent has worked with the client to terminate the contract .
I have been shafted.

The product I was delivering was not working out as planned. I wasn't able to deliver but there was not the buy-in from other senior permie staff who refused to provide input into development, and I was expected to sort that out. It has been a learning experience certainly.
A thing to note, for all those claiming there is 'no smoke without fire' is that during the contract, I did not have any conversations (formal or informal) or email exchanges about my behaviour, nor was there any other mention at any time. Nor has there ever been on any other contract to be honest, which is why I am so annoyed.

I've been there myself and with experience through hindsight my advice is to move on. You have a real danger of running up huge legal fees with no gain. Everybody will 'foul up' or be victimised at some stage and as a contractor you cannot expect to always fit in. Accept it, just look for a new contract and in a few months you will have wondered what all the fuss was about.

[The Master]

Contractors who give references to agents are mugs. You're giving them leads, not refs. Clients, never need references for contractors so it does not matter. Even if they did you just give them the name of a mate who can back you up.

Surely not?

[SueEllen]

Doddy,

The legislation you need to get a copy of the email is the Data Protection Act.

Section 7, Paragraph 1 to be precise - Subject rights of data access.

The agent is allowed to charge a maximum of £10 admin fee & can take up to 40 days to send you the information you request.

They are allowed to strike out 3rd party names etc but should leave most stuff in place. Once you have the data, you can then make your decisions, but not disclosing emails etc is a pile of old crap!

Just a word of warning. You may be fighting a long battle which you are likely to lose if you don't have a few tactics up your sleeve.

Lots of companies don't respond to Data Protection Act requests. This means that you have to complain to the Information Commissioner. However to complain to the Information Commissioner you need to send your original request by recorded delivery.

I would also include the admin fee of £10 in the letter and state you have done this plus the cheque number to speed things up otherwise you can add another 2-6 weeks on to your request.

If the company is large they will be devious enough to give you enough information to get rid of your request once you have complained to the Information Commissioner but not all the information, as they will claim not to have a record of it. The onus is on you to prove that they have this written record therefore if you have no written records I suggest you do what others have suggested here and record telephone conversations before you send off your request to them. If you have just send your request off then ring them on Tuesday.

So if they claim to have an email from the client but refuse to produce a record of it under such a request just take the agency to court for non-payment of your notice period rather than spend time chasing up the client.

Courts are not allowed to hear the recordings except to hear the tone of the conversations of such taped conversations but you are allowed to transcribe them for the judge and defendant to read. This is because it's illegal to tape people with out their knowledge. If the defendant claims the transcription is a lie then you just present a copies of the tape of your recording to both the court and defendant.

Should add that Data Subject Access Requests are a good way of ensuring companies put the correct information on your credit file.

[Turion]

That's not a problem because you need only say to your next client that "my previous client does not give references". Which is plausible because it is true in a small but sizeable proportion of cases.

Contractors who give references to agents are mugs. You're giving them leads, not refs. Clients, never need references for contractors so it does not matter. Even if they did you just give them the name of a mate who can back you up.

[Ken Dodd]

Again, thanks for the advice

I have now seen what I am told is an unabridged version of the email sent to my agent. I do know though, from piecing together conversations from last week, that this must be one of a series of emails exchanged between the client and agent. I will be asking for the lot via an official request. Thanks for the letter body-text by the way.

I don't want to be to specific with the details just in case it helps anyone reading this to screw me over any further but, in answer to the questions, I was there a few months. There is not, thank god, any allegation of inappropriate behaviour (to women). The wording is around the way I spoke to one of the temps - again something I disagree with. Consider though, that the agent told me that the email in their possession alleged 'inappropriate behaviour to women', without providing any clarification. The agent has a warped take on life don't you think? Again, I thought I had established some good working relationships. No-one spoke to me during the contract period about any aspect of my behaviour.

Wish me luck.

KD

[expat]

I always point out to my customers early on in the process that if they no longer require my services, they don't need to give a reason (when I switched from Hovis to Kingsmill, I don't recall putting anything in writing). It saves them having to invent one.

I think that's exactly the point. If they want to get rid of you, but have a "bad" reason for it, then if you make it hard for them, they'll invent a good reason. Even if it's false, it can stick. Rather leave with no reason given.

[KentPhilip]

It's a difficult one, because on the one hand the next potential client / agency might want a reference from the Last Contract.

That's not a problem because you need only say to your next client that "my previous client does not give references". Which is plausible because it is true in a small but sizeable proportion of cases.

[Bluebird]

It's a difficult one, because on the one hand the next potential client / agency might want a reference from the Last Contract.

It may be prudent to approach the client direct and say that you're worried about what you agent has told you and wanted to clarify the clients position with regards to the termination of your contract.

It may be that at this point the client will want to avoid any potential problems and give you a reference if you keep quiet.

As others have said, leave the agent alone - my guess is stirring it up with them will not do you any good for future prospects.

How long were you at the gig ?

[TheVoice]

Doddy,

The legislation you need to get a copy of the email is the Data Protection Act.

Section 7, Paragraph 1 to be precise - Subject rights of data access.

The agent is allowed to charge a maximum of £10 admin fee & can take up to 40 days to send you the information you request.

They are allowed to strike out 3rd party names etc but should leave most stuff in place. Once you have the data, you can then make your decisions, but not disclosing emails etc is a pile of old crap!

Here is the template letter that I use:-
Dear <name>

Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

I am specifically interested in information relating to my employment via <company name> & yourselves at <site>, which commenced on <date>.

I am particularly interested in internal & external communications relating to my period with this client, including a copy of the CV & other career information which you shared with your client, however the disclosure should also include any other written or electronic data held within your organisation, as you will be aware this includes handwritten notes, emails (both internal & external) & memos.

Please also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

If you need further information from me, please let me know as soon as possible.

If you do not normally handle these requests for your organisation, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer or another appropriate officer.

[BlasterBates]

If they dream up accusations then I would agree fight it determinedly. Make it clear you don't accept it. It is one thing to be terminated, but slander is in my opinion one step too far. It may be even be worth finding a senior manager perhaps in HR just to make your point clear. Be "nice", i.e. say you understand that contracts get terminated, but libellous accusations will be contested.

[NotAllThere]

...
Buy a BT Big Button telephone with speaker phone from Argos, get a recording device ready and call your agent up and try and get them to utter some liablous quotations from the client's daming e-mail then take them to court.

Good idea. And if it turns out that they're lying about what the client is saying, then the client can sue them too!

[TykeMerc]

Sounds to me like the client may have a hidden agenda and they are engaging in a little 'misdirection' in order to put blame.

Entirely likely and not at all unusual when a manager thinks someone doesn't fit or their work isn't up to snuff. They often don't realise that they don't need an excuse to dump a contractor.
Of course if the person really doesn't fit at all and the client isn't prepared to pay notice they do fabricate a mythical gross cause unless they have a real one to use.

Only you know if you were the office pervert ( I have not come accross an office pervert in 14 years .. they just don't exist anymore) .. but if they are complaining about a bit of 'cheeky banter' with women then that is unacceptable.

At what point does "cheeky banter" cross the line to the female being bantered? Only the recipient knows and will probably not comment to the banteree, but to their Manager. Never ever run the risk of complaints that's basic protecting your own arse as a contractor since we're so easy to dump.

With regards the lateness of deliverables .. well that happens on any project, why are they being so damned abrupt about it ? why don't they sit down and try and work it out with you ?

That can certainly be the case, but if the client hasn't been made aware that deliverables are likely to be late in reasonable time then it's just a failed deadline. Being late is NOT what we get paid for as contractors, I've dumped contractors for missing deadlines without managing my expectations in the past as it come across as incompetance.

I think to my mind it could be an individual on the client side that bears a grudge towards you.

Possibly in which case that person will probably be senior and his perm colleagues will probably back his word. Pointless fighting that.

Buy a BT Big Button telephone with speaker phone from Argos, get a recording device ready and call your agent up and try and get them to utter some liablous quotations from the client's daming e-mail then take them to court.

Which will be a case of his word against theirs and they can bring statements from staff with complaints and evidence of deadlines missed. This course of action would at best be an expensive folly and at worst could cost a fortune (as the client will go for costs and can hire as expensive a lawyer as they like) and get his name spread about as a pain in the nads.

My advice is cut your losses, mark it down to experience, learn from the experience and forget the whole thing and get a new gig.

Ken of course the agent is working with the client and it's possible you've been shafted, but never forget the agent works for the client and not you as the client has the MONEY. There are almost no circumstances where the agent will act for you over the agent.