Reply to: Itil

[cojak]

I think I will start with the foundation and at least it shows willing and is a start to putting the right tick in the box. If its the suits that are driving this they probably wont know the difference anyway!!

I assume do the v3....?!

Over to you Cojak - any comments........?!

Oh gawd, that's a tricky one - I was hoping no-one was going to ask it.

So my stock answer is "it depends".

If a company asks me that question I would say go with version 3 for the reason that Mal said - it covers life-cycle management which (I believe) is required now by business; concentrating just on Service Support and Delivery is too narrow focussed now that TOGAF and SOA are muscling their way into the business/IT (now known as Enterprise) arenas.

If an individual asks my that question I would say go with version 2 for the reason that Mal said - at the moment training is a broad brush stoke without providing the detail required to be usable.

In fact training is still in a mess - all courses and structures need to be in place before any individual will get any benefit from v3 training.

So go up the v2 route to your manager's certificate and then take the bridging course to cross to v3.

That's my advice...

Here is the official statement from APMG regarding ITIL qualifications (yes, they've got ITIL as well as PRINCE 2 now...)

[malvolio]

This ITIL stuff sounds good.

What business benefits would I expect to see to my company if I decided to go down this route?

Depends how well managed you are. I've taken 40% off IT operating costs before now, and I've not been able to improve anything. To quote my own website:

· Reduced business risk, since recovery will be properly controlled
· Reduced investment, since capacity will be aligned to requirement and any excess identified
· Improved availability, and hence improved productivity, since system failures will be reduced
· Improved financial control, since accurate knowledge of spend means better ROI
· Reduced insurance premiums, since the probability of catastrophic failure is greatly reduced

If you want a full audit, drop me a PM. My rates are reasonable...

[original PM]

This ITIL stuff sounds good.

What business benefits would I expect to see to my company if I decided to go down this route?

[Mustang]

Cojak is the better authority though...

Over to you Cojak - any comments........?!

[kanulondon]

I have often recommeded at my place at work that EVERYONE in live support sits the foundation course.

Things start making sense after you do, and it allows you to speak the same lingo as well as see the bigger picture.

I agree though the service management managers exam (red badge) is the top qualification to have.

KL

[Tingles]

Did the one day foundation bridge today v1 -> v3 - all good.

Quite a bit of change between v1 & v3.

New buzz words and acronyms...

I get results in two weeks - no issues....

Doing first intermediate course in october.



Tony

[malvolio]

That's a good question. ITIL1/2 is about SErvic Management as a ongoing process. ITIL3 is much more to do with life-cycle management: same principles at heart but applied rather more widely (and hence, IMHO rather less likely to gain acceptance ). Cojak is the better authority though...

[Mustang]

That's why everyone should do Foundation. The core principles are bleedin' obvious, but it helps if everyone call them the same things.

I think I will start with the foundation and at least it shows willing and is a start to putting the right tick in the box. If its the suits that are driving this they probably wont know the difference anyway!!

I assume do the v3....?!

[cojak]

Only one member of the team really really needs the paperwork and the detail understanding, as long as they are in charge of both process design and user education - which is where the experience comes in handy.

*cough*

[malvolio]

That's why everyone should do Foundation. The core principles are bleedin' obvious, but it helps if everyone call them the same things.

[original PM]

ok my hand is up!

thanks for the clarification

only problem is it would seem if only the people who know ITIL are using the language they will obviously be speaking a language no-one else is - so in essence they will act as an interface between ITIL Best Practice guideines and the rest of the business who will use everday phrases like

Its completely f**ked
Its only a bit f**ked

interesting though.....

[malvolio]

bit like Prince 2 then!

it seems some of these qualifications are becoming like a degree used to be - without one you would not get a foot in the door but once in the door you rarely used the knowledge that you learnt getting the qualification.


Discuss (please!)

Actually no, not like Prince2- one's a methodology that says you have to do all these things in this order using these criteria and these assessments in order to deliver the end product. (OK that's Prince proper, with Prince 2 you can drop stages if necessary, but the basic rule still applies).

The other is a Best Practice guideline - we don't care how you do it as long as what comes out meets these quality constraints and interface actions. And the reason you do Foundation is to ensure you're all using the same vocabulary (hands up those who don't know the difference between an Incident and a Problem? ). So you have to understand a fairly wide overall objective and bend all your process design to suit.

Snag is the suits in management who don't understand the real world think ITIL is a methodology, hence the demand for qualifications for anything even vaguely related to Service Management. Only one member of the team really really needs the paperwork and the detail understanding, as long as they are in charge of both process design and user education - which is where the experience comes in handy.

[original PM]

Well worth doing, IMHO, but then I would say that, wouldn't I But the exams don't mean you can do the job, only that you properly understand Best Practice. Implementing it is far more about people than it is about process.

bit like Prince 2 then!

it seems some of these qualifications are becoming like a degree used to be - without one you would not get a foot in the door but once in the door you rarely used the knowledge that you learnt getting the qualification.


Discuss (please!)

[Mustang]

Managers is the only one that means anything. But you have to do Foundation (trivial - but anyone who's gets anywhere near IT support or delivery should do it) and with ITIL3 there is a middle tier as well, just to make life difficult (and earn more money for the ISEB andhe training companies, no doubt). Will cost around £5k to get the Managers and it's not easy. There used to be Practitioners levels as well but these were not well regarded.

Well worth doing, IMHO, but then I would say that, wouldn't I But the exams don't mean you can do the job, only that you properly understand Best Practice. Implementing it is far more about people than it is about process.

So bottom line is I have to start with foundation, then do the middle level then do the final 3rd level.

exams don't mean you can do the job, only that you properly understand Best Practice. Implementing it is far more about people than it is about process.

Just the same as Prince 2 IMHO - however, needs must!

[malvolio]

Managers is the only one that means anything. But you have to do Foundation (trivial - but anyone who's gets anywhere near IT support or delivery should do it) and with ITIL3 there is a middle tier as well, just to make life difficult (and earn more money for the ISEB andhe training companies, no doubt). Will cost around £5k to get the Managers and it's not easy. There used to be Practitioners levels as well but these were not well regarded.

Well worth doing, IMHO, but then I would say that, wouldn't I But the exams don't mean you can do the job, only that you properly understand Best Practice. Implementing it is far more about people than it is about process.