Agency Advice

[Alf W]

Prince 2 Practioner (my arse)

I'd listen to this advice as it's spot on. You need to understand that as a Permy you have to sell yourself to HR bods who are interested in all the soft stuff and certificates held. As a freelancer it's about "Done this and done that".

Think about it. If you were looking for someone to put you in a new bathroom would you go for the person with a fistfull of City & Guilds who 'exhibits drive and self-motivation' or someone who could produce a solid portfolio of impressive previous jobs. They may be as good as each other but it's all in the selling.

You'll get some good advice on here amongst the abuse. Stick with it.

[Xenophon]

Thanks for the advice Malvolio. I'm very much with you with what you say about a good CV.

[Bumboclot]

I wouldn't agree BB, PM's don't have to be over 35 old chap. I'm quite a bit younger but my experience tends to be the convincing factor.

Although Prince 2 may be not be the be all and end all for clients it certainly helps in getting your cv forwarded to the client from the agent.

[BlasterBates]

Actually Xenophon, you do strike me as a bit green round the ears for a PM role, I know that there are team-leaders around that age, but they tend to be the ones that make all the mistakes.

That isn´t to say you don´t have all the skills, but you´re going to have to be convincing, and it does to some extent depend on the sector.

My experience would be take on 35+ for this sort of role, simply because youngsters tend to get het up and huffy-puffy when they´re over-extended and don´t have the same self-confidence to say "we´re ******* up", when they´re ******* up.

[malvolio]

I was perfectly polite actually, if a little abrupt, but I will admit to misinterpreting your experience - based wholly on your original posting - not questioning your ability.

As for 'professional' and 'cost nothing' - well I have taken my time, which I usually charge for, to respond to your original question with some valid and informed advice from somone who is potentially one of your putative clients. Shame you don't want to listen to it...

Seriously, if you want to go freelance, your CV will have to emphasise what projects you have delivered by yourself, how well the objectives were met and how they were managed. That is what counts: qualifications in this world only serve to impress the agency drones and HR (neither of whom are important) not the hirers. Is that clear/polite/cheap enough?

[Xenophon]

4 clients in 13 years

[Xenophon]

Thanks for your 'professional questioning'. Manners cost nothing.

[malvolio]

I'm not being lippy with you, dear boy, I'm like it with everyone, as you will no doubt discover. And yes I am older than you and no you can't do my job yet and no you dont scare me.

But to answer your points:

The reason I suggested Prince 2 training for someone else is in the whole thread if you care to read it - their question was "how do I break out of support and into real work"? You, however, are trying to sell yourself as a qualified and experienced PM - in which case I do not care about paper, I want to see evidence of success.

Your original post was saying to me "I'm a permie looking to geton the freelance bandwagon and earn real money, my qualifications are ..." You did not say "I have built these things, I have delivered these opbjectives, I work to these criteria". Ergo, the interpretation I put on it was a lack of the sort of experience I would expect to see in my candidates.

You also didn't explain the timescales - four clients in 6 years is 18 monhs each which might be OK for an experienced freelance, but is a bit light for a permie from my (admittedly biased) perspective.

If I mis-read what you said, it's only because I work to a different set of expectations to you: I get to hear a lot of cow crap from people looking for work. You may well be the exception, but I'm not making that assumption based on your original posting.
And one last point - if you can't take serious professional questioning of your statements by your peer group, you'll never survive as a freelance no matter how good you are.

[Xenophon]

BTW, qualifications are largely irrelevant in the real world. Speaking as someone that uses freelance Project Managers, I don't care that you've got a paper saying PRINCE2 (I've got one of those myself, and a cycling proficiency badge).

Got Prince2 Practitioner and a successful significant delivery under your belt? That's the absolute minimum to get past the CV selection stage.

Hmmmmm............

[Xenophon]

You see this is the trouble with providing some information. It gets misunderstood and incorrect assumptions made. Mal - I have been working for almost 13 years and have had 4 employers - the last was an interim role. My contact centre and IT experience is with the same client. I have delivered new systems across multiple sites (mix of off-the-shelf, build and tailor) with project budgets up to €5m. Time, cost and quality are naturally the major measurements of success and within the relams of agreed changes these parameters are met.

Just trying to use this board for some advice. Is that not what this board is for?

[WageSlave]

Malvolio,

Apart from the time, budget, standard stuff, what do you look for in a contract PM? Does sector experience carry much weight?

[Xenophon]

Thanks insight14 - much obliged.

Bit spiky there malvolio. Just wanted to give a bit of background. My delivery experience is predominantly cross-functional system implementations and related business process changes, training and so on. Interesting that you just get your contracts via clients.

You have an issue with 6 years experience. You must be a lot older than me then (I'm 30). If you're worried about me getting your work then you should be old man.

Don't get lippy on public forums with me.

/owned

[malvolio]

No.

Anyway, that's not how it works. The agency is not the source of the work, the client is. Look for the job then talk to whichever agency is representing it.
BTW, qualifications are largely irrelevant in the real world. Speaking as someone that uses freelance Project Managers, I don't care that you've got a paper saying PRINCE2 (I've got one of those myself, and a cycling proficiency badge). What have you actually delivered, to time, standards and budget - that is the interesting bit. And six years in four industry sectors does not give me a warm feeling either...

[insight14]

If you're looking in London I remember Eaglecliff having a number of PM roles going. I still get emails from them... Hope that helps!

[Xenophon]

I have been in formal project manager permanent positions for over 6 years in the travel, financial services, contact centre and IT industries. I am a Registered PRINCE2 Practitioner and hold the Association for Project Management Professional qualification.

I'm now looking for a contract project manager position and am currently just applying for posts via contractoruk.com, jobserve.com et al. Seems to be going well, but I would also like to approach some good agencies directly. Can anyone recommend any agencies that are worth approaching for my type of contract?

Cheers,

Xeno