working hours in contracts

[Sockpuppet]

My contract states that I am payed X for each billable unit (i.e. day) and that the "expected" number of hours each week is 40.

Doesn't say that I have to do 40, just that 40 is the expected amount.


If they say that you are doing 9-5 say tell them that if you do that you will but expect 0 overtime so if a meeting overruns by 5seconds you'll just walk out of it.

[NotAllThere]

My contract specifies a pwd of 8 hours. The client, in fact, doesn't care what hours I work, so long as I get the work done - and has told me so. Sometimes I work 6 hours day, sometimes 9. On average, about 7.5. The client are perfectly happy with this, because the work is done. ( I surf about 2 hours a day).

If they don't really keep track of the hours, then keep a (private) record of hours actually worked/on site. That should prove a good defence - work practices outside of IR35, when the contract would indicate inside!

( I'm not working in the UK, so I'm profoundly grateful I don't have to worry about these things )

[SandyDown]

Ok legal dept back came to me, they said that my contract with them should reflect the contract with the client, the contract with the client does contain a clause of minimum 8 hours a day, 5 days a week !!

However, I am aware this agency has many contractors onsite of the client, so if this was their standard contract, it seems many contractors are not concerned about this working hours.

My accountants says I can always argue with the IR re the working hours clause, but it would be better if we remove it from the contract!!

[Fred Bloggs]

Avoid unless desperate. If desperate, take it till you find something else. Client dictating hours is a definite indicator of employment like "control".

[ratewhore]

I had this a few contracts back. The contract initially stated 7.5 hours per day and I asked them to change it to a PWD. This they did and then added a sub-clause stating a PWD = 7.5 hrs.

Current contract is how I like it. No reference to hours at all and also includes the clause for upper contracts not invalidating IR35 provisions of my contract...

[PAH]

I am surprised that your working hour restriction is in the agency/client contract... why should the agency care? The client must be very strict on punctuality or something.. I would avoid.

I think it's more to do with billing the agency for hours that may be more than the ones agreed with the client, hence they put in these restrictions so they don't automatically have to pay you for them without clearing it with the client via the timesheets.

Is it a big IR35 no-no to have specific working hours on the contract? I've never bothered about it myself. The last few contracts of mine seem to have the hours as a guide, with a calculation of the what the project value would be over the length of the contract if all those hours are worked. Only seen this since IR35 so assumed it was to do with that.

[NotAllThere]

... working 9-5:30 and the conditions of working minimum 8 hours per day Mon-Friday....

How's that work then? Assuming a 30min lunch break, if you start work 8:59, you'll be in breach of contract...

The word "minimum" seems superfluous.

[MrRobin]

I've seen contracts before which state a professional working day, but then also say that a PWD means you must be there during the hours between 10 - 12 and 2 - 4... ??!

I am surprised that your working hour restriction is in the agency/client contract... why should the agency care? The client must be very strict on punctuality or something.. I would avoid.

[SandyDown]

The reason the agency is not changing (the legal rep of the agency) is because they are saying even if we change this in my contract, this is actually what is stipulated in the agency/client contract.

Thanks, I am surprised about this too, this is only the second agency that has refused to make IR related changes (Xansa was one, this is the second) Although this one is supposed to be a high calibre one.

Can’t name and shame at the moment- may be when all the negotiation is finished.

[KevinS]

I've not had an issue about getting this changed before.. Name and shame!!

I'd walk if I was in your position - but before you do, maybe a chat to the client will help nudge the agency in the right direction??

[SandyDown]

Recently I have been able to negotiate with agencies to change my contract Ts&Cs to remove any mention of working hours, just mention a professional day. The recent contract I got, the agency is not willing to remove the condition stipulating working 9-5:30 and the conditions of working minimum 8 hours per day Mon-Friday... I am surprise about this.

Has any of you found this term difficult to change? I am thinking of turning the contract down as am not really desperate at the moment.