Reply to: European Gigs

[Ardesco]

what sort of 'engineering' gets 800 a day. 70 an hour is the most that I have ever seen

tim

The sort of engineering where you work 12 hour shifts ?

HTH

[tim123]

I'm in Engineering and Europe is a lot more attractive now that the £ has depreciated against the Euro. Around 800 Euro a day seems pretty much top dollar in Engineering. Friends recent experience is that you are in danger of being undercut on rates by East Europeans who get the job because they're cheaper. I prefer to stay in the UK so I can get home without airport delays etc, been there, done that and got the T shirt for it thank you.

what sort of 'engineering' gets 800 a day. 70 an hour is the most that I have ever seen

tim

[tim123]

There are a range of prces in central munich from 600-3000 euros. £400 for a months rental in the city centre seemed good to me.

Do you have any alternative sites ?

Yes 400 is good, perhaps I just got an unlucky week!

Sorry I've lots my other links. There are a couple of 'franchised' agencies that have the same number in every town, but which have no connection with each other, but I can't remember them, sorry

tim

[Fred Bloggs]

I'm in Engineering and Europe is a lot more attractive now that the £ has depreciated against the Euro. Around 800 Euro a day seems pretty much top dollar in Engineering. Friends recent experience is that you are in danger of being undercut on rates by East Europeans who get the job because they're cheaper. I prefer to stay in the UK so I can get home without airport delays etc, been there, done that and got the T shirt for it thank you.

[SteveV]

Mr Lodge seems to specialise in high end luxury properties aimed at Americans. Some of their places cost as much as a hotel room.

You can get much better value though other brokers

tim

There are a range of prces in central munich from 600-3000 euros. £400 for a months rental in the city centre seemed good to me.

Do you have any alternative sites ?

[tim123]

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk

Again, not sure how accurate the stats are as they must get their data from adverts, which are notoriously male-cow-fertiliser riddled.

Interesting (for a northerner like myself) that Manchester rates are still about half those of London. I thought things may have evened up a bit over the last 10 years, with the advent of technology and Manchesters majestic rise out of the ashes.

The rates also don't seem to be increasing inline with inflation over the years, so eventually we'll be earning less than the permies.

I'm still seeing rates less than those offered in 1999.

tim

[tim123]

Munich Apartment rentals
http://www.mrlodge.de/englisch/e_home.htm

Mr Lodge seems to specialise in high end luxury properties aimed at Americans. Some of their places cost as much as a hotel room.

You can get much better value though other brokers

tim

[Joe Black]

gulp.de have very good statistics for Germany.

And CVs that make you feel like giving up, closing the curtains and just going back to bed because you could never compete.

Thank God though that I still have a chance because people like this never learnt CPM and QuickBasic...

[PAH]

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk

Again, not sure how accurate the stats are as they must get their data from adverts, which are notoriously male-cow-fertiliser riddled.

Interesting (for a northerner like myself) that Manchester rates are still about half those of London. I thought things may have evened up a bit over the last 10 years, with the advent of technology and Manchesters majestic rise out of the ashes.

The rates also don't seem to be increasing inline with inflation over the years, so eventually we'll be earning less than the permies.

[DS23]

Looking at Jobstats there are some very high average rates on the continent; for example Germany £87/hour, Belgium £67/hour and Netherlands £63/hour (linky here). How do these figures breakdown to the specific areas e.g. Finance, Realtime embedded (especially interested in this area), Tape changing, etc?

How much would you need to budget for accommodation (presumably hotels) and other living expenses? Particularly interested in examples for Germany (Berlin, Munich).

How difficult is it outside of the work environment when you don't speak the native tongue?

i'm on €137.5 ph so it certainly is possible. ultra niche has has its upsides but also its downsides...

tbh a european is no different from any other gig location - it just contains a few more variables in terms of travel, accommodation and tax. you need to check all these factors out and decide whether an all-in rate is better or not. i budget £2k a month for all expenses but that's me in this location, others will need a lot more.

you need to be prepared to hang out on a limb for the first few months or so as you will probably be starting to work your third month (and maybe have expenses into the fourth) before payments start coming in. a nervous time indeed! make sure you check out the whole business chain from agency through payroll to the end client. trust nobody because you can get right royally shafted if things go pear shaped.

france excepted language is generally not an issue as long as your end clients are decent sized corporations because most will use english as their business language.

[tim123]

Standard embedded work in Germany pays 50-70 Euro ph. Obviously if you have something really special you can get more than this, but then you can in the UK.

IME Germany pays the best rates in Europe, say to someone in France, Benelux or Scandinavia that you want 70 (Euro) ph and you will not get the gig.

tim

[BlasterBates]

In Germany average rates are somewhere EUR 60-70. A few years back rates dropped considerably. Major banks were paying EUR 40-50.

[SteveV]

Munich Apartment rentals
http://www.mrlodge.de/englisch/e_home.htm

[AlfredJPruffock]

Some of the JobStats figures I think need to be taken with a pinch, or two, of salt.

Perhaps some years ago, certainly on sites like JobServe and others - from which the figures are based, the majority of positions (both contract and perm) were quoted with rates or salaries. This is much less the case these days, and rarely was the case on their European equivalents.

As for the idea of the 'average' hourly rate in Belgium being near €100 per hour (€1000 p/d for Germany ), all I can say is that it would have a lot of people here rolling on the floor with laughter...

Aye Joe

And I thought I was doing well on 5 euros an hour ....

[darmstadt]

The page is dated 4th Jan 2008; I share your scepticism of the numbers. Does anybody have an links to any other stat sites?

gulp.de have very good statistics for Germany.